Back-up-Verse Theology
I remember as a young Christian reading about how Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for following their traditions over their hearts. I would think to myself, “I’m glad we don’t do that today.” It wasn’t until about fifteen years later that my eyes were opened to just how much of my religion was based on nothing more than tradition. The more I studied into this subject, the more I found that almost 90% of the Christian religion is all based on stuff we’ve made up over the years. More than half of the stuff we take for granted is not found anywhere in Scripture; it’s just something we’ve made up. After it’s been spoken so many times by a bunch of people we respect, we begin to believe it actually exists in the Bible, and amazingly, no one can tell us any different. I have found that most Christians today honestly don’t know the difference between tradition and what is actually in the Bible. Amazingly, most of the claims we make about the Bible aren’t even in the Bible.
I think one of the biggest traditions in Christianity today is the idea that we have to back up every single statement with a Bible verse. I can hardly get through some Christian books because in an attempt to be politically correct, the author has cut and pasted so many Scriptural references in and out of every single statement he makes. It absolutely bewilders me every time someone demands a Bible verse to prove something I’ve said. It’s become a Cardinal rule in our generation. It’s as though people have been convinced that they are as dumb as a post, and they can’t tell on their own whether something is truth or not just by thinking about it.
I have found that the Scriptural reference mentality actually stupefies people. If you have to look in the Bible to find out if murder is wrong, there’s a major problem. If you need a Bible verse to prove that loving one another is a good idea, you’re already dead. Because of this mentality we have about the Bible, we’ve not only become a generation of radically insecure people, but we’ve also become a generation of people who don’t even think to consult our hearts in any given situation.
Most folks will argue that if we don’t demand a Bible reference to back up every statement, we could all be lead astray and fall into heresy. I personally feel that the exact opposite is true. In my opinion, when I look at the history of Christianity, and focus particularly on the last hundred years when this mentality become popular, I see more heresy, division, and outright apostasy taking place because of this mentality. When you list the atrocities that have taken place on our earth because someone found a Bible verse to support their cause, it’s rather disturbing. Everything from the KKK right down to the Holocaust were the aftermath of someone believing they found a verse that backs up their position.
People will always disagree on the meaning of a Bible verse, but remarkably when it comes to the truth and heart of love, people from all backgrounds and circumstances recognize it immediately. Even tribes of people who have been secluded in the rain forest for thousands of years understand love's truth. They recognize it the moment it is spoken.
There are reported to be over thirty-eight-THOUSAND denominations of Christianity in the United States alone. Almost every single split took place because of a disagreement over the meaning of a particular Bible verse. When it comes to believing in God, loving people, getting along and living in forgiveness, you can visit any kindergarten class in America and 
find the absolute truth. How is it that a child of three can know spiritual answers, yet grown adults need to search a concordance and find a verse before they can come to truth?
I once posted an article where I wrote about how a husband should give his entire heart to his wife and love her unconditionally, and someone left a comment saying, “It would be nice if you would have used Scripture to back this up.” I thought, “ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME???? Is this what it’s come down to in this generation? I honestly believe that this dead-heartedness is the direct result of Bible worship. Christians have been taught to think in verses. They walk around not even making a bit of sense because their entire language has been taken over by their obsessive quotations of Scripture.
Someone once asked me why I don’t use Scripture to back up the things I write, and I said, “I prefer to do things the Scriptural way. Jesus didn’t do that. Paul didn’t do that. Peter, John, and Jude didn’t do that either.” I’m not minimizing the sanctity of Scripture and I’m certainly not attempting to diminish its value or suggest that it’s useless. I’m confronting a mind-set that refuses to look at our hearts and recognize truth when we see it. I’m confronting an entire generation who for some reason doesn’t know truth when they see it, and that thought terrifies me. Jesus said, “My sheep will know my voice.” I fear that if Jesus came today, no one would recognize His voice unless he backed it up with
Scripture.
Ironically, the people who are the biggest sticklers for back-up-verses are usually people who are involved in a system of church that is almost entirely unscriptural. I find this to be a common side effect in folks who have stopped listening to their hearts. The Bible verses they do actually read, mean only what someone else has told them it means. If they can’t be trusted to find the truth in their own hearts, they certainly can’t be trusted to interpret Scripture. Sadly, their interpretations are amazingly distorted by a series of twisted teachings they heard from someone they trusted. In some cases, I’ve seen people actually see words that are not on the page when they read a Bible verse, because someone else told them the words were there.
I once posted an article where I challenged the popular view that the Bible is the main way God speaks to us today. Before I finished the article I visited several Bible answer sites and asked them where the Bible said that this is how God speaks to us today. Almost every single “Bible expert” came back with 2 Timothy 3:16
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
Do you see something missing in this passage?
Amazingly after I posted the article I probably had no less than twenty people send me rebuking emails with that verse attached to them as proof that the Bible is the main way 
God speaks to us today. They, along with thousands of others have literally been duped into seeing things that aren’t there because of what they’ve been taught. Another example of this is when I confront people with their theology of “binding demons.” They proudly quote Matthew 16:19
“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Though this verse says absolutely nothing about demons, people see only what they’ve been taught. This is the result of a person’s willful abandonment of their heart. Because we have quit looking at our heart to find truth we have become naked and susceptible to pretty much anything we’re told. I don’t believe that it’s the lack of Scriptural references here that is at fault. I honestly think this comes about because of our trained dependency on Scriptural references. 
In fact, I started to break free from this robotic mind set when I began to look at what was in my heart and compare it to what I’ve been told the Bible says. That was the exact point where my eyes began to open for the first time in almost twenty years. I have found that when I live from the heart and stop meticulously following Scripture; Scripture starts following me. This is the place I believe that we are supposed to be in, in New Testament times. God is ready and waiting to write the book of Darin, and that cannot happen until Darin lives from his heart and knows truth from within because that’s where the kingdom of heaven exists.
Darin Hufford
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I also believe that the scripture about 'binding and loosing' has been totally misused in terms of demons and deliverance, and get quite frustrated when people shout out "I bind these spirits of..." and somehow expect the demonic to submit to them. I used to do it but received teaching that challenged it.. and my eyes have been opened. Actually it's a heart of unbelief, pride and mistrust that requires a scripture to back up everything we say, I think.
when I was first saved I was the most obnoxious person in the world to be around because I knew all sorts of bible verses but totally missed the heart and the person the bible was trying to reveal to me. It is one thing to know what the bible says and another to know what it means. It has been my experience that the people with the most bible verses in their arsenal are also the most difficult people to have relationship with because often they mask dysfunction with a verse. I know people who will fight you over the verses about women not teaching claiming a commitment to the bible but when you peel away the layers of their heart you find that they are deeply insecure men who have issues with women and their verse just provides biblical "cover" they need not to deal with their own heart.
I love the "Scripture starts following me" thing. The Bible has no heart in it at all. Paul actually says it KILLS. The greatest author of New Testament said his writings and all the other used without Spirit (and where does the Spirit dwell? HEART!) have the ability to kill. And that's precisely what we do with it so often. We kill others with it and we kill ourselves with it. We put ourselves in the jail of unfreedom and religious laws in the name of St Paul who was the greatest freedom preacher since Christ's death. We quote the most horrible verses he ever wrote and forget the most HEART ones. And we kill and we kill, the FRUIT of it is death. However, we have also successfully redefined the biblical word fruit. So we're blind to see the killing and teach others to do the same.
Sorry, but this is so inspiring. Don't you love how Jesus quoted the Scripture? He constantly quoted the most controversial things. "Hi Pharisees! Don't you remember how David stole the most holy bread from the temple of God? Hmmm.. quite a heart person, that David boy! Guys, learn what the word MERCY means!" I always blamed God that He invented religion and gave it to Moses. But now I see it differently. How horrible must the Old Testament people have been that the God who loves freedom with all his heart had to invent such things as we see in Moses' books. How come that Abel was OK with just one thing - a lamb sacrifice and 3 thousand years later the Isrealites can't survive without a horrible complicated Law. Paul says God never wanted the Law somewhere in Hebrews( can't quote here :D)
Awesome-tastic!
Myso - great stuff. I love the way you think.
AS Jesus stated, the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. I believe the Bible is the same way. It was written for man, man was not made for the Bible. It seems these days we have become enslaved to the very thing that was designed to serve us and free us. Satan always has a sick way of twisting good things that God gives us. And Myso, I agree, it sucks that we have to have such a complicated religion. I wonder if God, while giving us scripture was thinking "Why am I DOING this? This is ridiculous." He shouldn't have HAD to give us the Bible.
Darin, we're just painting together. You draw a bit, I draw a bit. Everyone who comes here looks and draws their bit. We're painting a beautiful picture of our amazing God. We've lost the Truth thousands of years ago. Only now I see the deep truth of the prophecies that speak of recovering something the first Church had. It's not doctrine, it's not a lifestyle, it's not a spiritual language nor set of social rules that was accepted by first Christians. It's not the Bible. It's Him. We're painting the Truth about Him. After 2 thousand years we start to see again that He truly LOVED the people and that He truly was a HEART person. And now when we paint the painting ourselves we suddenly realize why John used such weird and mystique words. The Truth is just so simple and so amazing...
Darin, I absolutely love your way with words. "It’s as though people have been convinced that they are as dumb as a post, and they can’t tell on their own whether something is truth or not just by thinking about it." And the husband who wanted back up verses - "ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?" This is great. Thanks! :-D
What the Bible thumpers do is to try to spread the fear that grips thier own hearts. It is the very tactic that anyone will use to try to MAKE you believe as they do. "In the abundance of words there lies sin".- When I think of past arguments with Jehovah Witnesses,(or anyone that disagreed w/ moi) I was no different than they were. But THEY of course were blind to the cultist beliefs they held, not me! It was always the challenge of proving who was right & who was wrong. Gosh! It was ugly! Love never entered that picture.
debsfree said "What the Bible thumpers do is to try to spread the fear that grips thier own hearts." Wow, so very true.
I love the way you tell it like it is. What you're saying is so true. God has written the law on our hearts and Jesus was always telling people to consult their heart and think for themselves. He never said what the Kingdom of God was he only said what it was like. It's up to us to figure it out.
Ruth, I love this "He never said what the Kingdom of God was he only said what it was like. It's up to us to figure it out."
Thanks myso!
I like this. I was on another site once where people were trying to carry on a conversation about a subject, and this one woman kept coming in and interrupting with Bible quotes. nothing else, just quote after quote, that I couldn't see fitting in...this has happened a number of times and it is very annoying. no conversation, no dialogue just quotes, [its as if she thinks because what she wrote is a quote from scripture, it trumps everyone elses comments, and she wins...wins what?]
Yea Wendy I've seen that about a million times:) I think people feel that their own words are less powerful then quoting Scripture. That's what I'm trying to set straight in people's minds. Their own words ARE scripture. If they are children of the liviing God.
Want to see a GREAT example of this? Rent "Religulous", the Bill Maher documentary. He interviews people at the Holy Land Experience in Orlando, FL. These people are so busy quoting Scripture that when they run out of things to quote, they can't think of answers with their own brains! I hated this about the Church. When I sought counseling last year to heal my relationship with God, I deliberately did NOT seek a Christian counselor. I was sick of people throwing Bible verses at me. I wanted (and found!) someone to listen to my pain & help me process it. Now I'm healed, out of the Bible, and following my heart & my instincts. Thanks, Darin and Free Believers, for being part of the healing!
This is interesting. I read a few passages of Scripture this week where the writers (Paul, Peter, John) said, I'm not going to bother explaining this to you, because God Himself has already taught you this. It seems contempoary Christians live out the same level of fear they had before Christ. They just found a different vehicle to drive. No real relationship equals no real security.
WooHoo!
It's nice to know how many people do get this. Sometimes I feel alone in the things that go through my head. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees these things:) Do you guys also think that clowns on unicycles are a danger to society? Hummmm, maybe that's just me:)
I love this post! I have long strayed from the idea that I have to back up everything with scripture, and perhaps it could be argued that I have strayed to a fault. However, more disturbing to me is when I talk with another Christian who says they believe this or that, because they were told by someone that a particular scripture meant a specific thing. As the person who told them this was someone they respected, they did not research anything for themselves, or consider that the verse many have an entirely different meaning. Yesterday, a friend and I were in a discussion about the fallibility of being human, and how that does not go away just because someone comes to Jesus...
...among the "sins" she mentioned was the sin of depression. I've heard many people claim that depression is sinful, but I've never once heard anyone "back it up with scripture". If you counter that depression is not sinful, but is simply part of the human condition that some people struggle with, the usual counter is something along the lines of, "You call it issues, I call it sin." I think the robotic scripture quoting, as well as the embrace of allegedly scriptural truths without verifying first that they are true, is alienating to Christians and non-Christians alike.I usually just "go with my gut" on my beliefs, and later check scripture, therefore many people do not think my beliefs are valid. For this reason, I often don't fellowship within a church body.
I remember looking down on people who go with their gut and check the Scriptures later. Today, it's all I do and I find that every single time, my gut is Scriptural.
Once again, I am blown away by your blog, Darin. And everyone else's comments are great too. BUT... How do I get free from the guilt of not being in the Bible every day? I went to Christian Schools all my life, memorized tons of chapters (got trophies etc. for it too) and then joined a mission that was, you guessed it, all about taking the Bible to every people-group on earth! Was it all a waste of time? It sure seems like it now. I was very relieved when I heard you, Darin, say on one of your podcasts that the year you stopped reading your Bible was the best year of your life! What a 180 degree change of mind, for me, but I see how I worshiped the Bible and not the WORD.
You know Jesus knew, obviously, that there was no written word yet when he told his disciples to go, teach and baptize. They were instructed to teach all they had learned from Love incarnate. He said later for them to wait for, the Holy Spirit, not the written word, before they go. Thanks again Darin, for reminding us that God gave us a brain and a heart for us to use rather than always waiting for someone else to turn on the switch to them. It is sometimes embarassing to see what you have been duped by in the past, but still freeing to know that you have re-engaged with how God created you. If not, we would still not recognize the Truth when we heard or read it. I am very glad to be on the trail with you and others.
Wooooowwww!!!! that is exactly what happens to me since I left the institution. I go by my instincts, and later result that this is in the Bible. Truly like Paul said WE ARE OPEN LETTERS. WE ARE BIBLES. Thanks so much fellows. It is so good to share with you all.
Isn't that exciting Miguel. We are living letters. We are scripture being written. I love it!!!!
Miquel, love the comment on instincts. I had an interesting conversation the other day with a person from the church I used to attend. I had told him I was no longer attending. His question to me was "Did God tell you you could leave?" I had to think(for all of a second)then said, "No, but then I couldn't hear Him even if He had said "Go"". But, I said with a grin, I have a relationship with Him now and that would seem to answer the question of whether I should or shouldn't leave the church. Don't you think?" He had no response. It would seem that my instincts were right on! Brain, Heart and Ears fully engaged now!!
You're a heathen, Darin. I rebuke you. Haven't you ever read this scripture: "And thus saith the Lord, I have given you a Bible, therefore you don't need my Spirit to reside in you or anything like that." It's from I Blasphemians 6:66
For many years I felf like someone with a food allergy where regular food became poison. Whenever I read the "Word" it seemed to mock me in my depressed state. Mix that with people who tell you to simply confess the "Word" and your pain will go away and I was miserable much of the time. Now I cannot blame the others because it was my bitterness that made the word bitter. Darin, you challenged me to look at God and the word in a different way through your love series. I began began to talk to him heart to heart. Now I enjoy our times as we read the word togther and I let him deconstruct what I have learned previously and teach me what his heart really means. I was hearing what I was taught by well meaning but wrong Christians and now he is teaching me and I love it.
You are right and you are not right. I need the Bible and with Gods help try to apply to my life what it says. God says he will put HIs law in our hearts(Jeremiah) , well I believe he has done so and the Bible just confirms it. God didn't say He'd put Theology and tradition in our heart.And of course He is speaking to us today. But I think we are pretty often deaf.Don't worry, Jesus will deliver us from teachings, theologies and traditions that have no value to HIm.Thank you for what you wrote. It's good to roch the boat.:)
Hey Darin .....the stuff you write is so mind-freeing, and actually, just common sense. Why, oh why have people made the gospel so complicated? It is so very simple! Love, live from your heart, walk in freedom and grace, and we will definitely know His voice and follow Him.
Nope. You're not alone, Darin. Great post. ;)
thanks again Darin, love the line "I have found that when I live from the heart and stop meticulously following Scripture; Scripture starts following me." powerful stuff,
Back-up verse theology exists because it was something that helped reformers to breakaway from the roman catholic church and for every other protestant denomination to break away from every other protestant denomination . This mindset seems to forget what James said about "wisdom" . no short pity quotes required . its a letter . just read the whole thing ;) Actually, if backup verse theology didn't exist .. would the current movements of spiritual growth? think of it as a stepping stone and a seed . you might look at the earth and see only dirt . but mustard trees don't grow over night . or out of nothing . but that has more to do with the Authorless Gospel commonly attributed to John . and some of Matthew but no quotes required its a (good) newspaper just read the whole thing .
I guess when you're grown . the seed doesn't seem as important as the fruit . so when people are grumbling about the seed not being everywhere . instead of teasing them by drawing obvious Old Testament attributations to the word "seed" in conjunction with their "one track mind" i ask .. what will this seed grow into ? Seeds are hardened in the beginning for protection .. but become softer as they bloom and blossom and reseed the ground with their fruit . thanks for the meditation Darin, i'll stop by later . fun topic
The idea of backing something up with scripture leads to eisegesis, the concept of scripture conforming to us. It's Janis Joplin saying, "You know you've got it if it makes you feel good," and then finding a scripture fragment that generally agrees with that. Very dangerous. Exegesis is the opposite. It means that in reading scripture, we conform to it instead, and do what it says. The more we read it, the more accurately we are molded, because at that point we are receiving the full counsel of God. Scripture is not meant to 'back us up' in our wishywashyness. It is God Himself shaping us through our willingness to learn.
Truth is where we find it. It can come through scripture, a conversation with a friend, a dream, or through Balaam's ass. Even so, I note that Jesus, Paul, John, Peter, et. al., frequently quoted scripture to get ideas across. I particularly like the word of Jesus to the Pharisees "Ye do err not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God." It is important to know scripture and have it written on our hearts. We can speak scripture that will not be found in the Bible if we truly know God and converse with Him. Certainly we will speak what is in our hearts and if it has been said before and recorded, a truth from God in the Bible, we will certainly speak it. If others think we are following a "backup verse" tradition, is that our problem? We were not called to be lawyers.
Good point Joe. If a scripture impacts us, then we walk away from that with a conviction. That's exegesis. When we quote it, it's not coming from our fingertips (as something we grasped for) but from our heart.
Darin, Thanks for the thought provoking thinking! Being freed from traps and bondages of various kinds is what the Holy Spirit loves to do in our lives. My love for the Word has grown in recent years so much because I can sense the Father's heart and voice as He speaks to me through it. What an awesome gift it is to us kids. Thanks again!
The difference between eisegesis and exegesis is the same difference between media with a liberal and conservative bias . if you are one the other seems biased and if you are the other then the first seems biased and if you're neither then all seem biased everything else is pretense . eisegesis = means someone elses opinion on interpreting the scripture exegesis = means my opinion of interpreting the scripture but away with all this "gesis" because its all about "Jesus" at least that's the way my "eise" be seein it . its more than interpretation . the word is a seed . what is important is the fruit that comes from it . not the particulars .
good point Joe . didn't Jesus say .. "woe to you lawyers?"
I don’t think we can take what Jesus said to the Pharisees and automatically assume it's meant for us. They were spiritually dead people who had to depend on a written law because they didn’t have new hearts. We now have a heart that’s alive to God and the law is already written on our hearts so we can now look to our hearts to guide us instead of a book. Also, I don’t think the Bible ever refers to the letters of the NT as scripture. That term is reserved only for the OT writings.
Aida, I can certainly understand where you are coming from with your take on the meaning of scripture. My understanding differs. When Jesus said "It is written..." and defeated Satan in the wilderness, He was using the sword of the Spirit, not whacking Satan over the head with the Torah. I see scripture as that which is written in our hearts by God. If people read passages of the New Testament and have their lives transformed, it is evidence that the writing is from God. It only has meaning to us, however, by the grace of God. God gives us discernment if we ask. And we can ask God if we find a passage for which we question the inspiration.
Good point Joe. The Word needs to be written on our heart continually. Once is not enough, because there is a lot of dark things that come from our heart, and some of them look very. very good. I mentioned Janice Joplin earlier; I'm sure her heart was telling her that drugs were God's will for her -- maybe even His provision. Morality cannot be defined by individual choice. We need God's leading and sometimes correction. When I read the Bible it's like turning up the volume of what He is saying to me. I need that.
Thanks for clarifying, Joe. That’s a good point. I guess I would go even further and say that that also applies to writings that are not in either the OT or the NT. I’ve found so much life in more contemporary writings that I know God has inspired them. I believe a lot of our problems are caused by the fact that we have to have a written law to tell us what to do. When we were given our new hearts, the law of love was written on them. Now we can consult the love that is written on our hearts to see what are wise decisions and what are foolish ones.
Nicely said, Aida! I agree that one of the major struggles many Christians have is with the written law and legalistic tradition. In truth, we are dead to the law and it is dead to us. Paul said it well by noting that the power (strength) of sin is the law. Some of the wisest advice I have ever received is "Follow your heart, not your head." Our minds are being renewed but our hearts know the truth, giving us access to the mind of Christ. With respect to writings, I very much believe there are non-canonical writings, both ancient and modern, that are inspired. I recall being blessed by the first part of the book of Barnabas, once a part of canon. Yet the latter part of the book is apparently from the Didache, a legalistic writing. Of course the very word "canon" means law or body of laws.
Dana - I have profited greatly from reading the Bible. I came to a knowledge of the truth while reading it and have learned much through it. Even so, it is the Spirit that taught me or I could not have understood the words, metaphors, and parables within. I find that the Bible leads us beyond dependence on written word into an increasingly personal relationship with God, a dependence on Him, the One of whom scripture speaks. Our horizons expand as we realize there are so many ways in which God can speak to us. I feel certain many Christians have been illiterate and yet have had a wonderful relationship with Christ while many with theological degrees have missed Him.
Did anyone see the kids movie "Ella Enchanted"?. I just had the idea that how people in the IC are so obsessed with the Bible as their final authority and never mention the power of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. Anyway, in the movie, this man is cursed and turned into a talking book. He is imprisoned in the book and Ella has to carry him around with her, to give her guidance, show her the way.
about one and a half year ago I watched a videoclip on a website of a cult...and was shocked about how they backed up every little detail of their sick theology with scripture. It was the day I realized: You can back up everything with scripture. And I decided not to do that ever again. The bible is too great of a book and not just a paragraph encyclopedia.
Because people, cults, and even Satan (Jesus' three temptations) it's important to be able to counter with Scripture and expose errors in their misuse of Scripture. Context is essential...Supporting Scripture helps...Proper use of types and shadows is important...Understanding the original Greek/Hebrew. I believe that God wants us to be prepared so that nobody can take advantage of us.
I get it. It is so much easier to hide behind what has been taught than to think clearly and be a stand for what is in our heart. Authenticity, honesty, openess and love cannot be present when the head rules tha heart. Speak your truth!
how come the bible is not questioned it seems more like people are experts to give you a microwaved answere from their radiation filled minds...things that have meaning need to be cross examined. Revelation says the mystery of seven stars if you ask me that is one of the most intriguing thing i have ever read in the bible yet that is one of the least discussed things i have ever heard anyone who goes to a "church" talk about..but something childlike awakens in me when i hear things i never heard before like i have been invited into a dimension that blah i don't know thats freaking amazing. btw i suffer from a flip your bible open OCD and land on a passage i guess i am coming just coming out of my bible fortune cookie stage..love your stuff man especiallly the honesty
'How come that Abel was OK with just one thing - a lamb sacrifice and 3 thousand years later the Isrealites can't survive without a horrible complicated Law.' Where people won't love, they have to have law. And I suppose, the more horrible we are, the more law we need. I suppose that's why God gives us the governments we deserve. If a nation departs from the love of God, we'll get a despot.
All I can say is WOW and Thank You!! What you're teaching has been a passion of mine practically since converson. I have to ask you though, how did you manage to actually make it into a public speaking venue without being stoned or run out of town? My husband has been trying to teach such concepts (in his words, to show that the Emperor really *is* naked) for years and it has resulted in being asked to leave congregations. In the church we now attend, there is, as you say, a division. There is a group who are hungry to hear what he has to teach, and a group who have called him dangerous, and advised his teaching be kept from the youth. He is, however on the teaching committee and the pastor greatly respects his approach. Do you have any advice? Thanks!
I would love to meet your husband. If for no other reason then to be an encouragement to him. It has been exactly like that for me. I was a pastor in a famous mega church for about 5 years and their doctrine went totally against everything I taught. I know the division very well:) I was hated with a passion for many years. Still am:-) Let him know I'd love to meet him. Darin
Totally makes sense. Today I was thinking about Pat Robertson's terrible comment about Haiti and how that concept of God comes out of traditional, OT thinking. I look forward to participating in a relationship with God that works for me, which means I get to participate in shaping our reality, with the Spirit's guidance in life and Bible understanding. But since he doesn't say much, it's perceived as me making decisions with confidence that he is providing and accomplishing anything good that happens.
forgot three words at the end of previous comment. . . . as a result.
Darin, seriously - you rock. Speak it loud brotha!
The obsession with backing everything up with Scripture can go against the same people who want it. My older brother who only lived a few years after becoming a Christian 39 years ago was taught this, so he insisted on back-up Scriptures for things such as how he was asked to dress for church services. (He wanted to dress casually so his friends would feel welcome). He also wondered why the congregation did not "greet one another with a holy kiss" etc, etc... He was years before his time. He'd have loved your post. Wonder if God is letting him read it? What a picture!
Fantastic, I have thought this for years as I have sat in church listening to church leaders mangle scripture to suit their own programme. In my time I have heard that, the heavens are brass, that their is opposition in the heavenly realm, that unless we care for the poor, God will not come and do his thing, that we should bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there are people in the room with a spirit of, well take your pick, that God is judging the church as he did the people in the OT, that he is refining, winnowing and chaff chucking, that they where with us but not of us, all this is backed up with cookie cutter scriptures, that support the churches current programme and leadership, which is always billed as very important and what God is doing now !!!!
Sorry about this question but I have to ask it for my own satisfaction. Do people "following their gut" come up with as many different versions of the truth as people following the "back-up verse" mentality? I guess I know part of the answer - If you know in your heart "God is love" and you are seeking to live a life of loving others, that is the direction your "gut" will take you. I suppose it goes with what you have said somewhere that people will find in Scripture what they want to find, from the KKK to prosperity doctrine. I suppose in a way they are going with "their gut too", but just don't admit it. They "go with their gut" then pretend (even to themselves maybe) that they came at it the other way round ("the Bible told me . . .").
I guess it is what happens when as Jesus said "These people honour me with their lips,but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men." A heart open to the love of God and loving others will find the right way. I guess we can be afraid not to have it all written down in black and white because we know that sometimes we do act selfishly or unlovingly and we think we need the Bible to pull us back into line but we really know in our hearts when that is happening, don't we.
This piece is HOT!!! Thank-you. :-)
Powerful stuff! I realized about ten years ago that I could have easily been replaced with a computer that had a bible in it. Fearful that if I gave my opinion on anything it was usurping the place of Gods Word. People need flesh and blood counsellors. When I hurt I need a compassionate person to let me know that It will be okay, and that they understand how I feel. I need a hug and a pat on the back at times, as well as a rebuke on occasion. The Bible cannot do this in every occasion. People who are led by the Spirit of God, can, and do. Simple truths, but oh how difficult to embrace, or even see, when we are blinded by pre conceived ideas. Thanks to all of you who have made yourselves vulnerable by posting your ideas. We all have a long way to go, are you not glad that God is patient.
I have a queation regarding what you wrote about Jesus not vicariously dying for us. At least it was something like that. What then is your take on this scripture: For He has made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. I really appreciate the sense of freedom that I pick up from what you write, however I also sense a danger in rejecting what has come before as far as theology is concerned. Too many people are quick to abandon all that they learned because they say it puts them in bondage. Christianity is more than feeling good. We have a responsibility to be accurately representing what the word of God teaches. That as you know comes from studying the word ,but we don't need to always be quoting Scripture in order to answer questions.
Hey Alex. I'm not really sure I understand the question. I'll take a shot at an answer but I may be way off in terms of what your question is. The wrath of God was on SIN, not on people for sinning. When Christ became sin, He was put to death. He wasn't punishing Christ in place of us, He was punishing sin on our behalf. I'm not sure I agree that we have a responsibility to accurately represent what the Bible teaches. We have a responsibility to love one another and believe in the one He sent. The whole responsibility to the bible thing, has come about through years of institutional teaching, but I'm not sure it's entirely accurate because they didn't even have a bible back then. That's just stuff we came up with on our own for the most part:-)
Thank you for your response to my question. I am not trying to catch you or trip you up, but I am interested in what you have to say. You caught exactly what my question was, and I see the logic in your response. As far as responsibility to accurately represent the Word, Paul exhorts Timothy to study to show himself approved by God, as a workman that doesn't need to be ashamed because he rightly handles the word of truth.Do you not see an admonition to accurate handling the written word, howbeit Paul was referring to the hebrew scriptures.
I see that as Paul wanting Timothy to know the Hebrew scriptures that pointed to the coming Messiah and how those scriptures were fulfilled in Christ. I think we take verses like that and make them a law for Christians today. In fact, I think we take every NT verse that either says to do something or not to do something and we have created an entirely new list of laws that are just as bondage filled as the original law. We end up making Christianity about following the new set of laws. It's just not about that. It's about relationship.
Thank you again for your response to my question. I appreciate what you have to say, and I appreciate your patience, as you must get a lot of the same questions from many people. God bless you as you endeavor to lighten the spiritual load for those that are burdened or overwhelmed.