Elijah and the Charismatics 1&2
1 Kings 18:16-40 DHV (Darin Hufford Version) Modern Translation
I had been a believer for one year when I heard about the upcoming conference for future evangelists. The theme of the conference was "Proving God to a Dying World." The speakers lined up were all men who were known for their powerful delivery and unbridled
passion. By the time I walked through the door with my name tag securely fastened and my conference schedule in hand, I was ready for a serious touch from God. I knew that something had to happen between me and God or I was done for. It had been at least eight months since my last experience with His Spirit and I was chapped and dry inside. This was it for me. It was either sink or swim. I needed God's touch more than anything else in my life and I was prepared to do whatever it took to get it.
In the months leading up to this event, I diligently sought the Lord but for some reason, it was as though the flow had been damned. It just wasn't happening for me. I went through a variety of emotions ranging from rejection, condemnation, loneliness, sadness, rejection, hopelessness, fear and did I mention rejection? I used to drive around Hollywood on my motorcycle praying inside my helmet at the top of my lungs. I felt like an abusive husband trying to convince his wife he won't do it again and he'll change if she will give him just one more chance. I would plead with God to give me back His Spirit and I must have 
apologized a thousand times for whatever I did to make Him leave. I honestly think it was the most terrible time in my life, and so when I took my seat in the back of the Church sanctuary, I was on my last spiritual leg. "If nothing happens tonight, that's it," I thought. I'd just accept that I had grieved Him one too many times and He had finally left me for good.
As the speaker was nearing the end of his sermon, I could feel a slight nervousness coming over me because I still hadn't felt anything and I knew that there couldn't be more than 15 minutes remaining. I began to panic.. I looked at the clock with pleading eyes as though it were God Himself, and then back at the stage. Nothing. I was empty. Just then, the preacher began his altar call. I felt hollow, but I went forward anyway, just in case. People around me were clearly being touched by God. They were sobbing and crying. Some actually ran to the front of the building and draped themselves over the altar, while sobbing and crying. The man beside me was screaming in tongues
with tears running down his cheeks. Several others were dancing and jumping up and down as the Spirit was moving. People everywhere were on their faces crying before the Lord. I sat there straight-faced, observing everything around me and feeling nothing when I heard the preacher say, "The Spirit of God is in this room."
I can't explain it, but the moment those words left his mouth, something came over me and I began to weep and cry uncontrollably. I lied directly on my stomach and covered my face with my hands and basically went to town. I was crying so hard I could barely manage to form words. I remember feeling His Spirit all over. My body was warm and my hands began to tingle. Even my lips were numb. I was shaking from head to toe. "Finally," I thought. "Finally." He was back and it was truly wonderful. This feeling was so incredible that I never wanted 
to leave the building. If I could, I would have moved in and camped out at that altar for the rest of my life.
I made a thousand promises to God that wonderful night. I gave Him all my addictions and attitudes of my heart and I swore up and down that I'd follow Him for the rest of my life. Just having His presence back in my life was everything. I never wanted to see another stretch of spiritual dryness like that again. I was prepared to do whatever it took to keep the fire alive this time. I had learned one thing that evening: don't hold back. I realized that my problem was that I always held back my emotions. The moment I just let go, God could do a work in my life. I made the decision that I would never again hold my heart back in an attempt to maintain my composure. From that night on, I promised to give it my all and cast off all restraints. I would scream and dance and fall down and roll around if that's what it took to get His Spirit.
As I stood up, I noticed that my legs were shaky and threatening to buckle. The Spirit was still all over me. I could barely make my way back to where I had been sitting. "We'll prove Him to the world," I said to myself, as I noticed the conference logo on a schedule that was lying on the floor. I had forgotten how powerful His presence was, but if the world could see this, they could never deny His existence. I secretly wondered if God was still doing a work in me because my body was so numb. Perhaps I shouldn't have been walking back to my seat. Still, I was excited that I got what I came for. It was worth every penny. I was excited to be a part of this movement and I was even more excited to "Prove God to a Dying World," and I knew that this was just the way to do it.
When I reached my seat and began to gather my things, I felt someone put their hand on my shoulder from behind. It wasn't a gentle touch, like you would expect in Church. It was a forceful grip as though someone were keeping me from running away. I spun around to see two police officers standing over me with their guns drawn and aimed right at my face.
Fear shot through my body as I was violently thrown to the ground and cuffed. They drove their knee into the small of my back and held my head down with what felt like a ton of bricks. I could hear people starting to scream from all parts of the building and I immediately felt embarrassed.
When I was pulled to my feet, I gasped in astonishment. There were police officers running everywhere, tackling and holding these pastors and evangelists down to the ground and cuffing them. Within seconds, the sanctuary sounded like a massacre. People were terrified and screaming. Some were running aimlessly through the aisles, searching for the nearest exit. Others were calling out to God and speaking in tongues as they were forcefully taken from the building. Just then I heard a shot ring out and as I turned my head towards the stage, I saw the man who had preached the message that night falling backwards and into the baptismal. They killed him in cold blood! I actually witnessed it. My heart sank in my chest 
as I realized that none of us were safe. If they did that, they were capable of doing anything.
Before I even finished my thought, another shot rang out, and then another. Each time I could hear a wave of screams from the captive crowd. People were in an all-out state of panic. "They're killing us," someone cried. Bang, bang, bang. I could see the bodies of those I had shared the Spirit with only minutes before lying lifelessly in the aisle. I struggled to pull my hands free from the cuffs. My heart was pounding so hard, I could hear it through my chest. I asked the officer next to me why they were doing this and he began beating the side of my face with his night-stick telling me to "shut my mouth." I struggled to find a reason. How something so terrible could be happening just after one of the most powerful moves of God I had ever witnessed. At one moment, His Spirit's presence was so clear and obvious and in the next, it was like all hell had broken loose.
"Why didn't he show up?" I heard an officer say to someone as he beat him over and over.
"I thought you were going to prove Him to us," another said, just before pulling the trigger on an innocent victim. These terrible men were literally mocking us and our God as they heartlessly executed one person after another. There were a total of 450 pastors and evangelists who were brutally murdered that night. As I was put on my knees with a gun to my head, I found a brief few seconds to pray one last time to my God. In my shuddering fear, I looked towards the sky and said:
"Why...why...why, oh great Baal, could they not see the obvious manifestation of your presence in the service tonight. Your spirit fell in such a mighty way. People were sobbing and crying. Others were dancing and screaming. I was on my face weeping with everything within me. It was so obvious that you were there. How could they not see that this was clear proof of your presence? What happened?"
************************************************
Years ago, I attended a Benny Hinn service with my mother and sister. Towards the end of the service, Benny Hinn called upon the Spirit of God to fall on the people and my sister went down like a sack of potatoes. She was crying and crying. I immediately felt rejected by God because I didn't get "slain in the Spirit" like she did. I wondered if He was doing something big in her life and not in mine. She couldn't get up off the ground. For almost 45 minutes, the music played and she laid there sobbing and crying, filled with the Holy Spirit.
I noticed her hands were contorted. Her wrists were bent inward and her fingers were in a claw position. My mother sat on the floor beside her and prayed for her. We tried to straighten her fingers, but they were stiff and unmovable. "Whatever God was doing, it had to be big," I thought.
About two weeks later, I was driving down the 101 freeway in Hollywood when I noticed a car in front of me weaving back and forth. It was going about 30 miles below the speed limit, so I knew that something was wrong. Eventually the car pulled off the road and rolled into a small ditch. Someone passing by called the paramedics because it was clear something wasn't right. When I walked to the car and looked inside, I saw a Hispanic woman that looked to be about 50 years old sitting in the front seat. She had tears running 
down the side of her face. I immediately noticed that her wrists and hands were in the exact same position my sister's were in that night at the Benny Hinn crusade.
I started praying for her. I knew that for whatever reason God was doing something in this woman and He must have timed it perfectly so that I would be in on it. As I was praying, the ambulance pulled up behind us. The paramedic asked me to step out of her car as he took my place and began trying to revive the woman. I knew in my heart that he wouldn't have any idea about spiritual things so I was searching for a way to explain what was happening. She must have just left a powerful church service I thought to myself, but how in the world do you explain this to an unsaved pa ramedic?
I stuck my head in the passenger side window and asked him if he knew why her hands were contorted like that. I was planning on informing him about the Holy Spirit because by now I was convinced that God has set this up so the paramedic guy would get saved. What he said stopped me in my tracks and has forever changed my life. He said:
"Her hands are like that because she has been hyperventilating."
"SHE'S EMOTIONAL."
I've always felt that the story of Elijah and the Prophets of Baal was one of the most exciting and interesting stories in the Old Testament. I may be in the minority here, but when I first came across this story, I felt sorry for the Prophets of Baal. There were 450 of them and Elijah had every one of them slaughtered. The story has always created more questions than answers in my mind. Rather than taking things at face 
value, I tend to look at this event from the eyes of the poor prophets who were killed. It just seems heartless to me.
The biggest question I've always had about this story is in reference to the religion of Baal worship. When these people stood forward to call upon their god to consume the sacrifice in front of Elijah and the rest of the community, they were clearly expecting SOMETHING. My question is, had something happened in the past with their religion that convinced them that their god would show up? Surely something must have taken place at some point in time to convince these people that he was real or they wouldn't have been able to maintain an entire religion dedicated to Baal. If nothing ever happened, you would think that someone somewhere would say something.
My first conclusion was that Baal was a demon that had manifested in the past and performed miracles for the people. When Elijah challenged them to the "showdown," God
must have silenced the demon of Baal and not allowed him to manifest and do anything. I've often wondered if Baal wasn't in a back room with handcuffs and a gag while this entire event took place, because God overpowered him. At least this is what I assumed when I first read the story. It doesn't make sense to me how an entire religion could stay in existence if nothing had ever happened to confirm the presence of their god. Something had to have happened at least once or twice! When those prophets of Baal stood before the people and began to call upon their god, it's obvious that they fully expected him to show up. They were sure of themselves. You don't get that way without having had some confirmation and evidence of his existence. I find it hard to believe that they would go so far as to cut themselves until their blood was flowing if nothing had ever happened in the past.
It wasn't until about 20 years after I first read this account in scripture, that God began to reveal to me how this religion kept its followers and continued to grow. I feel foolish for having missed this for so long when it's been right under my nose.
Baal worship was about emotionalism.
I actually discovered this when I was a pastor in a charismatic mega-church. While sitting in my office one night after service, I began to examine all the "claims" that we made 
about what God was doing in the midst of our services. There was constant talk about how "God was doing miracles in our midst," and how He was showing up and "healing diseases" every Sunday. "The supernatural healing power of God," are a baby's first words in the Charismatic world. As I began to look at the cold, hard facts of what actually did and didn't happen, I could not recall one single person in our entire church who had received a verifiable healing in the last 20 years. NOT ONE! Yet we talked about it as if it were an everyday occurrence. These embellished stories were passed down from generation to generation and before we knew it, we all believed in our hearts that we had actually witnessed them when in fact we hadn't witnessed a single thing.
Let me state quite plainly that I believe God heals people today. At the same time, I will tell you from experience that most of the time, when someone claims that healing took place in their service, NOTHING happened. The irony is that you could put everyone who attended that service through a lie detector test and ask them if healing took place and they would say, "Absolutely," and pass with flying colors. I am amazed at how people will thoroughly convince themselves that something happened when there was actually nothing.
The evidence is in the emotionalism. They are certain that God showed up because they got emotional and others did, as well. People were crying and sobbing with their hands in the air. After all, this is the normal human response to the Spirit of God. When God's Spirit begins to move, everyone in the room begins to break down and cry. I must have heard my Pastor over a thousand times speak the words, "The Spirit of God is in this room tonight - people are literally crying and sobbing." This has become a common understanding among Christians in America. When the Spirit moves, people get emotional. As a preacher, you can see the moment the Spirit enters the service because tears begin to stream down people's faces.
Make no mistake about it! This is precisely why pastors end their sermons with a heart-breaking story. It's why the lights are turned down and the music begins to play softly in the background. It's why the preacher speaks in that quivery-about-to-cry-voice as he
struggles to make it to the end of the story. The entire Pentecostal service is formatted to fit the God-is-emotion mentality. Church camp services are notorious for this pattern of thinking. If people can be brought to a point of an emotional breakdown alongside a campfire on the last night of camp, they'll carry the testimony home, "God showed up in a powerful way." Great time and attention is paid to the timing and format of Charismatic services and it's all about getting at people's emotions because that's when God can move.
The irony is that I haven't found one account in all of Scripture where this was the human reaction to the presence of God. I don't recall anyone sobbing and crying the moment the Holy Spirit touched them in the New Testament, yet today we act as if the sobbing and crying is evidence of His presence. No one laughed uncontrollably either for that matter and 
believe it or not, in the almost 8000 year span of scripture from Adam and Eve to the Apostle Paul there wasn't one single person who "twitched" under the power of the Holy Spirit. No one was "Slain in the Spirit," no one's hands shook violently and thank God no one barked like a dog. I have come to the conclusion that modern day Charismatic emotionalism is nothing more than the resurrection of the Baal religion of the Old Testament times. I know for a fact that not every Charismatic behaves this way or believes like this. I know I don't. There are thousands of others however, who are in serious bondage to outright Baal worship and they don't even know it.
The first part of my story about the conference, "Proving God to a Dying World," is true. It became fictional at the moment the police officer touched my back. I had learned to seek an emotional experience and I hadn't had one in almost nine months. Because of this, I felt dry and empty. I felt like God had left me because I hadn't been moved to tears in almost a year. The moment I began crying at the altar that night, I honestly believed in my heart that He had returned to me. I had bought into the Charismatic mindset that teaches us that our God is emotion. It took me nearly 18 years to shed this lie and come into the truth.
I believe that if the Prophets of Baal had been interviewed just before Elijah put them to death, they would have said things like, "The spirit of Baal moved in a mighty way in this service tonight." I am certain that their entire religion was carried not by evidence, but by emotionalism. For the Prophets of Baal; emotionalism WAS the evidence! As far as they were concerned, they DID prove their god existed. The evidence was in their weeping and crying. It was in their dancing and rolling around. I believe that they had no idea why they were being slaughtered.
Many Christians today are caught in a ‘Prophets-of-Baal' mindset. I'm not saying that it's wrong to become emotional while in the presence of God. I am stating, however, that it's
wrong to think that just because you get emotional, it is evidence of the presence of God, or that getting yourself worked up into an emotional frenzy is the same as creating an atmosphere where God will "show up." I have five children and trust me in this. When they get emotional, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH THEM. In fact, that's about the only time when communication with them is impossible.
It's the straight-faced times that I long to share with them. That's exactly how your Father in heaven is with you. If you feel that God's dealings with you will always result in emotionalism you are basically missing out on an entire life with him. Unless you are suffering with chronic depression and feeling emotional ALL the time you won't have a daily walk with your Father. God cannot be conjured up. The act of trying to conjure Him up is Baal worship. New Testament Christians need to understand that He doesn't "show up" to our services. He lives inside of us always whether we feel Him or not. That's what faith is.
Darin Hufford
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relly good!
i thought you were nuts when i read the blog yesterday. that was then. this is a great explanation of what i witnessed and was part of in church at one time. it makes complete and perfect sense.
They have energy drinks now...if you have one of those before a service instead of coffee..you could have one of the mightiest moves of God yet..I jest. For many years church was like American Bandstand for me. After the praise and worship, then the alter call it was like something inside of me had a rating system. You know, like American Bandstand. I give it a 4,I really couldn't dance to it and the singing was so yesterday. Etc etc.. They just didn't conjure up the Spirit this week as well as they did last week. I hope you know what I mean. Even though I jest this is a serious matter. When I left the churches as I knew them for good I went through a withdrawal as if I was on the worst drug. It is in this time that I was at my lowest. I have a great testimony. This I know. God is Love...
Wow... really good. My favorite is when you bring it home- that you find it hardest to communicate with your girls when they ARE emotional. Revelation for me right there! :)
You hit a home run!
Ahh...thank you, Darin, for Part 2 of this E&C Blog. I like what you state about emotionalism. It also reminds me of "belief-ism." (Ha! A word I just made-up). If someone believes they are deeply sick, even though all biological tests & evidence proves they're physically healthy, truly it doesn't make a bit of difference b/c that person has convinced themselves otherwise. The same thing can be said in reference to Christians who convince themselves of all kinds ungodly things b/c they want to "feel" dramatic, almost Bi-Polar emotions & see what appears to be supernatural special effects MORE than they want a Hollywood-ized hoopla on-fire-all-the-time daily living).
I agree wholeheartedly to your conclusion that modern day Charismatic emotionalism is nothing more than the resurrection of the Baal religion of OT times. Unfortunately, many IC's do EVERYTHING they can to up the emotional ante so that more people will HEED the altar call & be saved. Sigh. When I worked as a secretary for a mega-church pastor yrs ago, part of my job was to count the # of people who reported having asked Christ into their hearts. Sometimes the Sr pastor would update the congregation & report state his #. Yet, knowing the real #, I'd sit there, mentally asking "What? Huh?! Where did THAT # come from?" As a choir member there, I remember the day I watched yet another emotionally-induced altar call, & knew I was exhausted & done with being part of encouraging this.
Man...keeping up with these blogs is like having dead bug and bird crap wiped off my windshield. It looks noticably better after one cleaning, remarkably better after two, even better after three... NO wonder I was *so messed up* emotionally and couldn't make a logical decision about something as simple as which class to take while in charismatic IC. I can't believe I was duped by that agenda for almost 7 years.
You hit the nail on the head. Great post.
I is so good to know that you know that you know, deep in your heart that God is Love and it is stamped right on your heart and that is good enough!
This hits it dead on!About a month or so ago I was invited to attend a "service" where some of the Lakeland-like going-ons were "happening." I only went to see a friend I had not seen in over a decade. I cried all right, all the way home from the service, so sad at what I saw. When I described it to my friends the next day I said: "It was like watching the prophets of Baal try to whip themselves up into a frenzy." It just broke my heart that they thought they had to work so hard to get "touched" by God. I used to be one of those people, many lifetimes ago, so I have no judgment in my heart toward them, just grief that after all these years they still don't know Him at all. Thanks for being will to keep speaking the truth.
Thanks Darin! It is with reading this blog, that after my 3-year long experience working for a TBN affiliate, 17 years ago and attending their Baal services, that I can think clearly, without the emotions, especially fear, and see the truth! I do continue to grieve that this organization continues to be so successful and ever spreading deceiving so many along the way...
AmyInSurprise... Years ago I made up a similar word to "belief-ing" too... I call it "faithing"!!! How funny is that?! Regarding the two blogs, I totally totally agree... I never thought about the fact that perhaps the prophets thought the day had been a success. And all the while the world is looking on and wondering if our God really is sleeping or on the toilet like Elijah mocked... because nothing real is happening!
WOW! That was as right on as anything I have heard anywhere. It answers so many questions about emotionalism...I have several friends that are caught up in the "Lakeland thing". Is this the "cure" for emotional addiction? after being in the "Charasmatic movement" since 1972, and a "free range believer" for the last 10+ years, this truly speaks to the mindset of te former years. This gives me more compassion for those cought up in this bondage, and direction for loving prayer for it's many victims....THANKS
Thank God I read this! I have never fully immersed myself in that kind of charismatic teaching, (was always a hesitancy in my spirit) but there was also a jealousy and a feeling that somehow I was just missing Him because I could not have a similar experience.
Your E&C posts are quite thought-provoking. In 1985, Benny Hinn came to our church, and I felt that I was spiritually immature since I didn't fall down like a whole section of the crowd did when he waved his hand at them. For years, I tried desperately to feel the power of God when in a prayer line, but I usually left feeling disappointed, as if God didn't want to waste His time on me. If you had told me a few years ago that I was involved in Baal worship, I probably would have thought that you were a judgmental Pharisee who had never had an experience with God. Now, however, I would totally agree with you. I loved God, but I wanted to "feel" His Spirit rather than just trust Him in faith. My doubt kept demanding that He prove Himself with more than just His Word.
I have six children, and I agree that when they are caught up in the emotions, I cannot get through to them. I am learning to just sit back and wait until they are tired of the drama and then we can communicate. I don't remember who said this, but I like it: "Emotions are like children. They are nice to have around, but you can't let them rule the house."
Thanks for the encouraging post. Along the same lines I just read "The Latent Power of the Soul" by Watchman Nee and he makes some good points distinguishing a Move of God's Spirit versus a "move" on peoples emotions For those interested to read it I made a tiny url to the pdf at: http://tinyurl.com/63ul8e or if you want a preview before it opens: http://preview.tinyurl.com/63ul8e God Bless, Dustin
So I'm not crazy! Yeah!!! :-) Now that we know the problem, how are we as christians going to fellowship together without being in a click? I'm always on the outside looking in because I don't want anything to do with all that make believe worshiping the Lord! But the one thing I do know I love the Lord with all my heart, I just don't care so much at all with the spirit of Baal! I knew something was wrong and you just opened my eyes. I couldn't figure it out but I knew I didn't want anything to do with it. Thanks Mary
Oh sweet irony! I am listening to the new Hillsong album and your message hits home. Much like porn is not real sex, this music is not real worship. Sure I like the words, melodies, tears of joy and overall theatrics, but I'm more satisfied with the emotions than anything. Unfortunately, I've replaced something real and fulfilling with a thirst for music that has properties of a painted girl with enlarged mommy parts. I believe it's similar to drug addiction with the whole life ruining properties. If it brings me to tears it must be of God! No longer am I going to let my relationship with Christ be determined by if I feel his presence or how crazy I worship at church. I might as well slide into a CR meeting and say, "Hello I am Ryan, and I am addicted to worship!" Ugh, Baal me out.
Sometimes I think the comments are more fun to read than the article.
I am reminded of the mystic classic "Dark night of the soul" by St. john of the cross. John's thesis here was that God takes us through a place of no spiritual experience where everything is dark and nothing makes sense anymore. We realize we know nothing and feel miserable and scared. I have come to realize through my own dark night that this is a process of breaking me from the emotional addictions that I had to church and spiritual experiences. I realized that I was worshipping the experience and the emotions rather than God. I think I treated the rest of my relationships like that as well. worshipping the feelings the person gave me instead of loving the person. VERY nice Darin. Thank you for that!
Wow, David. Exactly.
Darin, I am wondering then if you still feel that Benny Hinn is the real deal? And if 'Slain in the Spirit' is scripturally sound, just emotional, or as in the case of yourself and other young pastors just a sort of giving in to external pressures?
I remember years ago - I attended a women's Bible study with some charismatic women - it was pretty multi-denominational - but I was so drawn by the passion of the charismatics. I was so hungry for God that I wanted all of Him. The thing is that on closer examination - specifically having them try to push me down on the floor by strategically pushing my head back while laying hands on me - I was able to discern the theatrics I had been drawn in by. The saddest part is that the people who are being so deceived are seeking out a deeper relationship with God. The passion is not found in your typical SoBap churches, but later you find out that what you were chasing after was a performance. Very disheartening.
Darin... awesome message my friend. Isn't it interesting that when I was so caught up in the emotionalism and attended The Brownsville Revival 5-6 times that when most of the people prayed for people they would shout "Fire"...just like they did in the "Baal worship service" you spoke of? I just got the sameness of the two. I'm glad the "fire" burned out and now I have a real relationship with God - not "FIRE!"
I stopped going to churches in my area in the last 1-1.5 years for that reason. it is apparent the the church has been infiltrated. So, my brothers and sisters in Christ, you know for sure it is TRUST (Faith) and not human feelings! be blessed!
Very interesting thoughts. Thanks. About a year ago, I attended a so called soaking-event (just some small private thing), where people would lie on the floor and wait for a touch of god. Others would go around and pray for the ones liyng on the floor. After 15 Minutes I had to leave, because I felt so awkward. I could not understand it, because when God was there, why would I feel strange? And why would others have an encounter with god? Emotionalism describes it pretty well I guess. It explains a lot to me. And I am glad that I am not crazy, just because emotionalsim is not working for me :-)
Sarah, sounds like an experience I had in 1987. I attended a baptist club at the time and had a friend who was charismatic. We prayed together one evening after study. I didn't care that he prayed in tongues, but I experienced something strange later on. I woke up @ 5:11 AM with the sensation that something was messing with my mind. It was like it was trying to control my thinking! It was all I could do to crawl out of bed on my knees and try to pray. The only thing I could get out of my mouth was "Jesus", but that's all it took. What ever it was left me immediately. I can't explain it. I believe my friend was a christian and it never happened again. I never told him because he would say something like I grieved the HS. I can't imagin the HS leaving when calling on Jesus.
I agree with much of what you've said except for idol worship being all emotionalism. I'm not sure how Baal worship differed from other idol worship but in 2 Kings 3:27 King Mesha sacrifices his son to Chemosh and "there was great wrath against Israel" because if it. There was and is more to idol worship than you think. Also, in terms of weeping I can't even begin to state the text for conviction of the Holy Spirit producing tears. Yes we have come to depend on many things beyond Christ alone and that is grievous indeed but let's not through the baby out with the bath water.
pitifulcoma - I'm not quite sure where you read that I said "Idol worship is all emotionalism." I never wrote that in this, or any other article. I think I’d like to take you up on your statement: - "Also, in terms of weeping I can't even begin to state the text for conviction of the Holy Spirit producing tears." I would love to see the text you're referring to in relation to Christians weeping and crying DURING WORSHIP in the NEW TESTAMENT TIMES. Your comment sounded like there are many that I’ve overlooked, so I’d love to see them. Also I’d like to take you up on your other comment: “There was and is more to idol worship than you think.” Are you proposing that we should acknowledge the power of idols and pay homage to them? Just trying to understand where you are coming from.
I'm new to this website, and I'm very happy about what I am reading here. Every real work God has done in my life has been just between God & me. I've been in many services like the one described above, and I've been emotional in a service, but I always felt condemned because it never caused real change in me. That's all I ever wanted, was to be made like Jesus. I finally woke up to the fact that no amount of falling down and crying would produce that. I left organized religion a year and a half ago, and God has done wonderful freeing things in my heart since leaving, none of which were emotional. The things I'm reading on this website are great, and I know God is using it to continue that work of freeing me of the religion that has dominated my mind and heart for so many years.
Is the DHV version of the bible available at my local Christian bookstore? I like it better than the message translation. . .
Well put Darin. . . I can remember being in a church service four years ago believing that God had healed me, when in all actuallity I wasn't healed, and I just felt that way because a "healing evangelist" played on my emotions. I believe with all my heart that the reason we play into the emotional gig, is that we don't believe that whether in pleasure or in pain God shares every moment with us. That when we're happy, he is happy. When we hurt, he hurts also.
I am very sure that many many many people need freedom of emotionalism and I'm so sooooo glad that many are delivered and get the freedom. I know there is loads and loads of fake out there. But from some comments I just feel the opposite extreme.. I personally hate to be pushed into emotions or something similar, but not everything is a fake. There really is supernatural presence that is beyond emotionalism. I know there is loads of fake but I personally know real genuine cases...The point of freedom is being free and not thrusted into anything. But being free also means being open to admit real supernatural experiences - the Bible is full of them. However, I admit that after years of being stuck in emotionalism it is great for many people to just enjoy the "normalness".
I think when we limit people's understanding of God's presence by making them think it's ABOUT emotionalism, we disqualify them from noticing it the ten million other times He moves and speaks in their life.
Absolutely. I think it's the same as with love and sex. The world often defines love as pleasure and sex, which is horrible. BUT God created sex and it's an amazing gift to a married couple. It just has to be in it's right place. The same thing is with our marriage to God. He created supernatural presence and emotions and gifts of the Holy Spirit. But it's like sex - it has to be in it's right place in our relationship with God. And like in real life - most of the time real relationship is not about sex. And you, Darin, are just healing all the people and calling them to freedom of realization that the real relationship isn't the thing they think it is. It just has to be put in the right place like sex has to be put in the right place in our human relationships.
Greetings! Darin, Thank you! Now I understand why there is no emotion with me. Thank you!
This is really good Darin! God connects with us on all levels, but you are correct when we seek an emotional experience with Him for some kind of confirmation of His love for us, then we miss the entire purpose of a relationship with Him. God has not called us to a high maintenance relationship with Him. Emotional rollercoasters are HIGH MAINTENANCE. God grows us on all levels and the more intimate our relationship is with Him, the less "emotional" rollercoasters we feel we have to experience in order to "feel" close to Him! My time with God is like sitting and having a cup of coffee with one of my closest friends. It's communicating with each other. It's a dialogue, not a monologue. It's not one party waiting for the other to show up! It's relaxing in His presence consistently!
Darin...This is one of the best articles I have ever read. Thank you so much for revealing truth. May God continue to use you to shed light on truth!
Hey, did somebody turn a light on? I went straight from the occult into the charismatic movement. What's the difference? I had more freedom in the occult than I did in the church. I was told I was free, but I couldn't see that I wasn't. I couldn't make a logical or sensible decision and my life was falling apart because I was an emotional train wreck. God brought to me a point where I realized that leaving the church wasn't the same thing as leaving Him. I moved on to other churches and continually experienced the emotionalism over and over, each time to a lesser degree. The most peaceful home I've ever been in belonged to a married christian couple in their 40s that didn't go to church, it boggled my mind. Now I know why.
Wow! I always thought something was wrong with me when everyone would be experiencing this so called presence of God, because I never felt anything. I use to get so depressed thinking that God didn't want me...kind of how I grew up in the natural, always being told that I wasn't wanted...my parents wanted a boy. Your post was so liberating for me. My Father loves me, and I rest in that. Thanks so much for sharing Darin.
Yeeeeeeeees, FIRE! The fire of God's truth! Great article and like many have concured, truth!
This has definatly been my exsperiance. With the catholic Charismatic movement to the Pentaclostal exsperiances...Now I know that God dwells in me works in me and out to others in the world with out all this hoopla. He does heal I know this and have exsperianced it personally.
I was playing keyboards at a 'worship' meeting last year when I heard the words 'prophets of Baal'. We were in the middle of singing far too loudly, "He is the Lord (Show your power)" - for the third time - a song I've never liked - and people were jumping up and down in the darkened room with their arms in the air. I felt sick and stunned and couldn't do anything except pray for mercy. Later my husband said, before I could say anything to him, that the evening had made him think of Elijah on Mt Carmel. This article was a great confirmation - no-one in our town we spoke to (we're in Germany) could understand what we were talking about.
To FQ in Germany: Few people ever will understand what you are saying. (and that's okay) Darin, thanks for posting this.
Jeesch......do I have to admit I got emotional...lol.....am I the only one here. I especially liked laughing haha. Anyways...my biggest and best times were with God and God alone....that I can attest to. :>)