The Tithing Dilemma
I recently had someone email me, asking me what scriptures I could produce that would prove that tithing is an Old Testament law that no longer applies to the New Testament. Though there are many scriptures that can prove this point beyond a shadow of doubt, I 
chose not to give them to this man. In fact, I rarely give scriptural references to back up the things I preach or write about. If I am right about the things I say, it should speak for itself. The truth of my words should stand on their own. This is especially true when it comes to the subject of tithing. I honestly feel that any Christian who has love in their hearts can simply reason their way through the idea of it, and come to the conclusion that it’s not New Testament. The reason why so many Christians today need a bible verse to back up something is because they don’t have love in their hearts; and hearts that are void of love, are blind.
Imagine, you’re standing outside of a beautiful three-story mansion that is owned by God Himself. Way up high on the third story is a window. Behind that window is a room full of all the blessing. Now imagine you have a hundred pebbles in your pocket and it’s your job to hit that "blessing window" with ten out of a hundred of those pebbles. Once the
tenth pebble hits the window, the owner of the house comes and opens the window and pours out blessing on you.
This is obviously a picture of tithing as we have been taught in Church today.
The difference between the Old Testament and the New, is that now YOU OWN THE HOUSE! Not only that, but your room is the blessing room, and you’re the one in charge of opening the window and 
heaping out blessing. You’re still standing in front of the window, but now you’re on the inside looking out. People in New Testament times look pretty silly standing on the inside of that window hitting it with ten of their pebbles waiting for it to open.
You might be asking, “Well then how do I get the blessing for myself?”
This is the part that is invisible to the vast majority of Christians today. In the Old Testament, God would bless someone who gave. If they gave a gift to someone, they could go home and wait for a blessing to come to them. God was teaching them that there is a blessing that comes with giving. He was preparing them for the New Testament times when giving IS the blessing.
Sadly today, because so many Christians don’t love, they give, and then wait for a blessing to come back to them just like the Old Testament people did. They don’t feel the blessing in giving because they don’t love the person they gave to. When I give my wife a new dress or a piece of jewelry, I don’t walk around the corner and say to myself, “I can’t wait to see what kind of blessing I’ll get for this.” When I give to Angie, I walk around the corner and thank God that I was able to make her eyes light up like that. I thank Him for giving me the blessing of being able to touch her heart in that way. The moment it leaves my hand, I feel a shower of blessing all over me. When I see her face get excited and tears come to her eyes, I am blessed!
Sadly, today's teachings on giving and tithing are all based on selfishness. It’s
heartbreaking to hear people exchange the beauty of giving for something so ugly and self serving. It’s sad when people today give with the mindset of planting a seed. It’s no longer giving when there’s something in it for you. It’s also sad when someone says that they give because God told them to. God shouldn’t have to tell you to give. If you love, you’ll give no matter what. I have found that all modern-day Christian mindsets concerning giving are based almost one-hundred-percent on a loveless give-for-gain mentality.
The concept of tithing is directly against the spirit of love. It is anti-intimacy. The first time I read in Genesis where Jacob told God that he would give Him ten percent of his income if God did all that He had promised Jacob, I remember getting a sick feeling all over my spirit. It actually made me laugh out loud. I thought to myself, “This guy is both stingy and stupid.” First of all, God is telling this guy that He is going to give him all this stuff, and bless him with blessings bigger than anything anyone has ever seen. Then the guy has the audacity to say, “If you do this, I’ll give you ten percent back.” It just comes across as silly to me.
Could you imagine if my wife and I had separate bank accounts and whenever I got a paycheck, I put ten percent of it in her account and the other ninety percent in my account? When we dated, we had separate bank accounts, but when we married we share an account. 
Everything I have belongs to her! I don’t give her ten percent of anything; I give a hundred percent of everything. There simply is no “hers” and “mine” in LOVE.
I think the very concept of paying ten percent to God is an anti-intimacy mentality. It’s like having a business relationship with God. All accounts are separate, and at an allotted time, you pay Him for blessing. In my book “The Misunderstood God” I basically show that modern-day Christians believe God is a mafia godfather whom they pay for His protection. This is indeed how thousands of Christians view Him today. Nothing could be further from the truth about God’s heart.
The entire concept of tithing in today’s church is based on our carnal nature. We’re taught to do it or bad things will happen to us. Most people I know who participate in tithing, do so out of fear of what might happen if they don’t. Many others act all happy and excited about tithing because of all the financial blessings they claim they’ve received since they
started. It’s a mine, mine, mine attitude that works ONLY on a loveless generation. To a person who loves however, 10% is offensive. Giving to get is insulting. The concept of “seed faith giving” or even "giving in faith" sounds crude and selfish. Love does not keep track of what’s given. This is precisely why Jesus said "don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing." You can't follow Jesus' words and still be a tither.
I’ve also found that when a person loves people, they are less likely to take 10% of their income and pour it into an institution that eats up the first 85% of that money on expenses, and ends up having 15% left for helping hurting people. Lovers of people usually see right through this, and they decide to cut out the middle man and give directly to the people who need it.
One of the latest statistics on tithing in America shows that about 8% of Christians pay their tithe. Most pastors will tell you that this is a sign that people don’t love. I disagree. I think this is a sign that people DO love. Church is simply not set up for a giver to receive their blessing as they give. There is no feeling of blessing when you drop money in an offering plate that speeds by you and disappears into an office. I’ve found that when people give to people, they’re inspired and blessed right then and there, because the 
intimacy of such an act is inspiring. That’s real difficult to get, when your money is being put into a machine.
You don't need a series of bible verses to prove that tithing is Old Testament and not for today. Just look at someone you love with all your heart and imagine telling them that you will only bless and protect them if they give you 10% of their income. Look at one of your children and imagine making that deal. The very thought of such a thing is sickening. You don't need biblical proof of something you already know.
Love proves it.
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What about a case when you don't earn enough to feed your family and you say that you just can't tithe, cause you won't have enought money for the family. And then you're told that you're supposed to tithe anyway, because you're supposed to have God on the first place, even before your family.
Darin, Amen and amen !! I remember hearing in IC that if I "give now" (in the plate), that I am storing up treasures in heaven. This "treasures in heaven" idea was quite prevalent as if that was the only, or at least the primary reason for doing anything loving or kind. I WAS sickened by it the first time I heard it. But being raised with the "trust the experts, not yourself" mentality, I continued in the IC for 4-5 more years being constantly reminded, sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly that their teachings were not about love, but some sort of compulsion. I do thank God that he is setting me free from that "trust the expert" mentality so I can truly hear the message and evaluate it for it's own merit. And I thank you for learning God's heart and allowing Him to express thru you.
dude you are itching for a fight aren't you? ;)
I had the same mind as out-of-the-fog. I was always trusting the experts instead of my own heart. I did this for so many years it makes me sick now. We always tithed, but it always felt bad to me. There was no joy, and I never felt any faith in it at all...like God was going to take care of me since I paid my tithe. It never felt right in my heart....and now I know why! Viewing from Love's heart it's so plain to see.
Yeah but if you don't tithe God will not protect your kids and he will take it from you in doctors bills. When you tithe God releases his power in your life. If you don't tithe God has your picture on the wall in his office on the most wanted list because you are a thief. Tithing is like a poker game you ante up your 10% just to play in Gods system. I have heard all if these form the lips of pastors. The tithing teaching is the new Galatianism. It's an Anti Christ doctrine that puts something other than the Lord and his work on the cross as the mediator between us and Gods goodness.
I used to hear things like, "The electric company will shut you off if you don't pay your light bill, so you better pay your God bill!" and "God is like a bank. You can't take out what you don't put in!" I could go on and on with the destructive teachings I had to endure concerning tithing. My realization that it no longer applies to Christians under the New Covenant was the catalyst that led to me leaving that particular club. I really hurt for people who are still caught up in this teaching, because it paints such a distorted picture of Father. You're right, tithign is about selfishness, and giving is about Love. Thanks Darin!
Thanks Darin, this is great. Since leaving IC I have tried to look for individuals in need to give to. I don't send much to any organizations, even those who I think are doing a great job. It seems to mean so much more (not just to me but to the person) when I give one-to-another. Also, I think the 85/15 breakdown of the IC budget is an optomistic figure, from what I've heard some say about their IC experience.
Greetings! Darin, Also ... ... They need "your guilt of service" to the LORD to acquire their goods such as money, clothing articles, furniture, houses, food, New Church, Bigger Church, etc., etc., etc., ... because if they were to tell you how it truly is ... the guilt would be lifted and all the material things including money would dry up and disappear.
This is so greatly written Darin, thanks for taking the time to write these articles as you do. I appreciate what you say, as it brings more and more truth in my heart!
Here's the thing: I have an earthly father who is truly wonderful. He is very loving and compassionate and everything a dad should be. Funny, when I was still living in my parents' home, not once did my earthly father demand I pay rent. Not once. In fact, even today when I visit my dad, he doesn't ask me to pay a hotel bill. Even as a adult, whenever we go out to eat or to a movie or something, he ALWAYS pays for me, because I will ALWAYS be his child. Now, these religious types had me thinking for my entire life that my Heavenly Father loved me less than my earthly one. Silly, when you think about it. Jesus told Peter that he did not have to pay the Temple tax because Peter was a son, and sons don't pay rent.
Darin "To Tithe or not to Tithe",the debate is endless. Personally I don't see the relevance of bring the subject matter up in church. The only time it is ever brought up is when the churches finances are not where they should be. I my opinion this is their profit margin. Churches have bills and you know from your experiences with the A/G they have a really expensive staff on the payroll. I am told rely on God and he will meet your needs, but the Church depends on "YOU" to keep the doors open? So what "I" am hearing is this, God will supply my needs but can't take care of his own house. That is kind of a messed up philosophy. I like what Bono sad "The God I believe in isn't short of CASH."
I am struck by the way tithing removes a person from relationship. There is no heart to heart connection being made. It is like Christians have blinders on and can't see the need around. They don't have to get dirty, or rub elbows with any one that isn't in their social circle. One year I challenged a group of women that I met with(bible study) to open their hearts to give beyond their tithe, that the blessing was to be had in the relationship developed by giving. I was shocked to hear their reaction. That the church screens and gives to those who REALLY need it. That way you are not suppling a drunk with more alcohol or a druggy with more drugs. They CAN NOT SEE the need around them. No more bible study for me... lol I am seeking real relationships with people that want to SEE...
I spent 26 years 'giving to get'. While it was internal (I would never admit it) I thought of giving as buying lottery tickets. I was so good at it they asked me to 'take the offering If I gave enough Father would bless my business. I always gave the best away. The best employees to the church (even paying them a salary) give give give but I find now it had little to do with relationship and much more to do with following the rules in hopes of getting God to move a little closer to me. What a treadmill! Now I stopped giving (and the guilt has finally ceased.) Now I look for what it is Father is asking me to do with Him. Moment by moment day by day. Scary and unpredictable and awesome. Like most relationships. Obedience became a comfortable place to resist intamcy with a Wiley God
Two things come to mind: 1. The IC mentality replaces the joy of free giving with 'paying the God bill.' What was done from gratitude becomes an obligation. It would be more honest to have a cover charge at the door. 2. Notice how many churches immediately did sermon series about giving as soon as the current economic crisis started? They knew they had to keep giving in people's minds. Even so, church revenues are down across the board because when money is scarce, people will put their financial survival above the organization's good.
Darin, not sure how much you remember of my journey when we lived in Colorado, but you nailed this one.
At my previous church we once had a guest speaker. The guest speaker actually took an offering for a new car for the pastor and wouldn't leave the pulpit or move on until "enough" had been received. To my pastor's credit at the time he returned the money and apologized for the guest speaker's behavior (Pastor had been out of town). Another preacher I know said he actually asked a woman to stop dancing up front during worship because he checked her giving record and she did not tithe faithfully. It is some brand of crazy and not God's.
Darin, I think another reason people need to see that the Bible says something in order for them to embrace it is because, people like me have been taught for years NOT to trust their hearts. I knew a guy who was afraid to believe something if he couldn't articulate it with scripture thoroughly enough. This mentality makes us slaves to the scriptures and to the theologians and seminarians who are the only ones allowed to interpret the scriptures for us accurately enough. While we may indeed have God's love in our hearts, we are afraid to consult that flame because we are taught not to. We are conditioned to need the pastor or seminarian to interpret it for us.
Great points, Darin. I didn't understand the concept of God blessing me after I proved my faith that He would, by giving something I didn't even have to give at times, but I did it anyway. It always seemed backwards to me. Your points make so....much more sense. And I like what Brent said about his earthly Father who has always provided everything and asks nothing in return. Why wouldn't our heavenly Father do the same thing?
Does the I/C give refunds on goods not delivered? Just wondering.
Help Me! Ok, I agree with all the above comments, but I am struggling in this area, my heart tells me tithing is not a new testament principal and I believe the scriptures back that up. The problem, I have graduated from Andrew Wommack’s bible collage and have listened extensively to Joseph Prince, both are grace teachers that I agree with most of the time. Both ministers teach tithing, they don't teach it like you’re saying. I realize that they aren't God and they don't know it all, but they are well respected and if it was between my heart and their teaching my heart would rule! Problem #2 about 2 years ago we stopped tithing and ever since we have had nothing but finacal problem since, all are needs have been met miraculously but it's like the abundant flow has stopped! Coincidence?
Steve, we're in a recession. Everyone's abundant flow has stopped:) Listen to your heart.
I have not believed in tithing for a long time. Generous offerings of time and money (led by the Lord) is my belief system. May God lead and bless us so we may be a blessing to others...Selah!
Steve, listen to Darin.One thing for sure, you are unlikely to exceed the wealth of preachers like Joseph Prince. I think he makes more money than God(jesus)
Hi Steve, I am very familiar with Andrew, my best friend is there now and I have listened to him for 18 years. He is a HUGE grace teacher and I like his stuff, that being said I do think he walks the line on the tithing issue, most likely because he has so many church affiliations. NT giving from a heart of Love is the only Model for the Christian.I recommend you Google Matthew Narramore and download his book called " tithing, low realm, obsolete and defunct". Darin is right though brother... so many times we don't trust God within to lead us into all truth. The Spirit of Christ in you is given to do that and I think that is what is happening when you say you know it's wrong but your teaching says otherwise.
Steve,one more thing and I am not trying to nitpick. No where in the NT is the abundant flow (financially) taught. Paul did not teach it, Jesus did not teach it and none of the apostles taught it. The blessing of the NT is Christ within us. Just food for thought.
Hey Dude! Are you out of your mind??? Do you really want to see all of these businesses,--- I mean churches/ministries go bankrupt??? I mean, think of all the ministers and their families who would be left broke! We would all have to depend on the Holy Spirit within us for direction and answers--oh wait, that sounds good...NEVER MIND!! lol Thanks, Darin....later
THis is first-class, Darin. The whole Body of Christ, within the institutional or not, needs revelation on this - it's become a legalistic bondage and deception to so many. All to suit church leaders and those who have a 'give to get' mentality. Oh how we need the full message of grace and LOVE to saturate our hearts and minds! Then we will give even more than 10%. Those who tithe have a sense of self-satisfaction and often, superiority, as they feel they have kept the law. The minimum they need to. How sad. Carry on with your messages, so many of us thrive on the freedom they bring.
For me giving is about worshiping God, just like singing a song or reading scripture... I love worshiping God... Churches should get as excited about the offering as they do about the singing or the preaching, Giving is just as valuable worship as anything else.
Peter I totally get what you're saying and I agree. However, from God's perspective would He rather you give to someone because you are worshiping God or because you love that person and see that they are hurting and have a need?
I would rather give out of a worshipful heart to the homeless friend I see on the street every Thursday than I would to a Sunday morning building. I get VERY excited about the first offering and chilled to my bones about the second. I do not need an intermediary between me and the people I want to help.
Thank you all for your insight and thank you Darin, I agree that everything we do should be from the heart and out of love, because it is God who is love, that gives us those desires. I disagree with your recession theory, even though the world is in a recession, we are in this world but not of this world and therefore not subject to it's wows. Thanks again and bless you all, Steve
Darin what you described is a classic Ponzi scheme paying the first investor with money you get from the second and so on. So does that mean tithing is God’s Ponzi scheme? As for myself, I find that out of enjoying God’s Unconditional Love comes a natural flowing of time and money to help others and it is not limited to a percentage.
Sorry for the late comment. It's been a great struggle to free myself from this mindset. I can't tell you how many nights I laid on my bed, curled up and sobbing, because God didn't "like" me because I didn't make enough money -- I couldn't afford to tithe and pay my bills. It always baffled me how I could be saved and become "right" with God, but an instant later I was already "wrong" with Him because I hadn't been tithing. I still struggle with the mindset of "you reap what you sow" but it's getting better. Thanks again for another dose of freedom!
I agree with a lot of what you say. However you imply that the church is an unworthy institution to pour your love offerings into. Jesus loves the church.i live in Africa. in my part of the world, the church has established mission schools that have educated the poor, opened clinics, built houses, cared for the dying, the sick and the poorest of the poor. They have stood against the injustices and corruption that have crippled our society. if we divert our love offerings from them and offer it to the hurting people that we encounter every day to appease a sense of guilt because we have, and they don't, those sacrificial organisations will collapse, and the money that i offered to the begging child at the traffic lights will be gone the next day. just a thought.
First off JP the "Church" is not the organization we go to on sundays. The "Church" is the people. It's you and me. Secondly, this article is about the concept of "tithing" not the concept of "love offerings." They two are totally different. There are plenty of organizations that provide money for missions and hurting people all over the world. When 85% of all funds coming in are used for expenses like mortgage payment, electricity, heat.......etc......that is NOT a worthy institution to pour your money into. I think it's great to pour money into a group who is going to spread the word to other countries, but when 85% of every dollar I give is spent for other things, THAT'S BAD. Sadly, the one who suffers for this is YOU and the people you help.
Thanks for sharing this. Someone recently told me the exact same thing and I was having a hard time wrapping my mind around it. But you have really opened my eyes up on this. Thank you! There is SO much about God I need to learn. Everything I thought I knew is crap.
Well we all can relate to that Ebony:):):)
Years ago I struggled with the question of tithing. So, I asked God about it. He told me He had paid it all. That's good enough for me. That doesn't mean we do not give. I believe generosity is at the heart of Christianity for if we have His heart, we are givers. He told me something else regarding my giving: "Give into the store house, not the whore house." Religion is often a place of ill repute, leading His sheep astray. I have found it is good to listen to His promptings on where to give. He told us His sheep would hear His voice and I am sure he is glad to show us where to give.
So many of the comments here were encouraging and enlightening. It is so cool to be in this global experience of "knowing" the love of God and the freedom that comes from it and sharing it with each other!! A side note is about a comment you made, Darin, that we are in a recession. We, the children of God, are not in a recession. The world is in a recession - my Daddy's abundant flow never slows down/stops :)
You are correct Peter...giving is an act of worship, but that giving is not necessarily to the institutional church. When we give to others in need, we are giving to Jesus because we are in Him and He is in us. It's all about people....loving and serving people. That's what Jesus did....He came to serve out of love. Love is the key!
Well said, GOD provides for us out of Love. When we give to those who need we fulfill the only commandanment that Jesus gave us. I live in the blessing not because of my wonderfulness but rather because of HIS LOVE for me.
About a year ago I preached a sermon titled "Kingdom Finances: Why You Don't Have to Tithe (But you do need to give)." I gave it with our pastor's blessing. He remembered the feelings of guilt he felt many years ago when first married and they had almost nothing. He and his wife figured that if they were in sin giving less than 10%, then why bother giving anything. In my sermon I went over NT scriptures on giving--to widows and orphans, to spreaders of the gospel, etc., but nowhere giving 10% to the IC. But I really missed it on giving flowing from being filled with His love. That would have been a much better message.
Thank you Darin for being a voice crying in the wilderness of all the souls seeking the TRUTH. I couldn't agree with you more.
Thanks for the encouragement Patty
As a planter-pastor we felt so strongly about the absence of NT instruction and jazzed as to giving out of love we never taught tithing quite frankly we encouraged people not to tithe, and all our needs for ministry to others were met in abundance. Thanks for the honest post!
I see that the basic attitude is, never let the Bible get in the way of what you believe. There is no excuse for avoiding the Word. God loves us, he loves all men, but that does not mean that he trusts or should trust all men. Love is given, but trust is earned through commitment, faithfulness and consistency. If these are absent then it would be foolish trusting such a person. God loves us but he does not love all we do. To love someone does not mean you must trust them. I love many people I would not trust in many areas. I love my kids, but that does not mean that I will give them the car. Just so God cannot give to people who have not shown themselves to be trustworthy. He is no fool. The man who burried the talent given him lost it in the end to the one who acted.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, ALWAYS TRUSTS, always hopes, always perseveres. 1 CO 13 -- Honestly Mike I'm not even sure why you posted this comment because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the article. If trusting the Word as you put it, is what you want to do on this topic I would suggest you study up on whether or not tithing is a New Testament principal. I'll include several links to articles on this subject from this website so you can read them.
Article #1 - http://freebelievers.com/article/rethinking-the-tithe Article #2 - http://freebelievers.com/article/complete-tithing-faq Article #3 - http://freebelievers.com/article/a-brief-history-of-the-tithe Article #4 - http://freebelievers.com/article/tithing-is-not-a-christian-doctrine
If there is a real question about whether the New Testamnet teaches the subject or not then a quick consideration of Jesus' words, "These are the things you should have done without neglecting the others," should suffice the honest enquirer. Does the Old Testament really produce a greater size of gift than the New Testament? Some would have to say "yes" for all the talk about "love." Real love is self-sacrificing. It is loyal and it goes out of its way to give. If this is the attitude that has replaced the tithe, then I am all for it. But for most it's just about the money. The only reason to challenge tithing is to assuage their already guilty conscience. Who would object to giving a token of your love? Or do we just love in words only. Is God really owner of all we posess?
Jesus also said to someone He healed in Luke 5:14 "..... go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them." We don't do that today either do we? Jesus was talking to the people who were still living under the OT law at the time he made that statement. TITHING was to support the Levitical temple system that was done away with at the cross. AFter the resurrection; the subject of tithing is NEVER ONCE MENTIONED. The entire reason why it is not NT is BECAUSE OF LOVE! If you love; 10% is offensive, and you certainly don't need a law or rule telling you what to give. Love gives 100%. All NT examples of giving was 100%.
Hi Darrin. The Sabbath of the OT was replaced by the Sabbath Rest of Hebrews 4. The Circumcision was replaced by the "circumcision of Christ" in the New Birth. Col. 2:11. Why is there no clear teaching of a replacement of the tithe in the NT given Paul's determination to make sure we did not live under the shadow of the Law? That fact that it is not rplaced means it is not in effect. The tithe predated the Law by 430 years. As did the Sabbath and Circumcision. But it is only the teaching of the tithe that has no "replacement" in the NT. On the contrary, Paul uses the very language of the Law in 1 Cor. 9:13-14 to assert and uphold the Levitical principle of the tithe for the support of the preachers of the gospel.
The idea that "love" comes with great feelings that make you do the right thing is not true. Anyone who loves knows that the baby crying at 3am does not come with warm self-sacrificing feelings. Doing the right thing requires commitment and a sense of responsibilty. No mother is doing it out of emotion at this time of the night and no husband gets up to help his wife because it feels good. The idea that requiring something would preclude an act of "love" is as absurd as it is false. On the contrary, it is precisely this doing in spite of feelings to the contrary that proves to your spouse that you do love more than all the passion in the world could. It is precisely this kind of love that fulfills an obligation that builds the depth of a mature relationship.
I love my children. But if they do not do what I want them to I am unwilling to reinforce their disobedience with blessing. I require that they obey me as a proof of their love. God is not fooled by our lip service. He will not commit himself to the uncommited any more than we will if we are wise. Jesus simply put it: "if you love me, keep my commandments." The concept that a requirement or a commandment is a love killer was a concept aparently lost on Jesus. The idea that love can make no demands and that love can require no action is patently false, or perhaps you are not a married man? Peace.
Hi Darrin, in answer to your "tithing is not a Christian doctrine" assertion. I am a Christian and I tithe and give offerings and give my time and my talens to the preahcing of the gospel. I give up my vacation time to go to the foreign mission field. Tithing is a doctrine I practise and one I know many of my friends practise. They too are Christians. Does your non-tithing make you more Christian? Does their tithing make them less Christian? Are you superior to those who tithe? No! Am I superior to those who do not tithe? No! But let no one be mistaken. Show me your love for God in your giving and I will show you my love for God in mine.
Mike the translation of that verse where Paul is supposedly talking about "making a living" is not only a very poor translation but it's outright wrong. First off he was talking about Apostles who are actually starting churches; NOT pastors, youth pastors, associate pastors, worship leaders....etc... Paul talked clearly about giving and said that "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion...." The concept of tithing makes no sense whatsoever in the NT when people are meeting in their homes and breaking bread together. In Acts we see the people giving EVERYTHING; not just 10%. It was never mentioned in the NT because there was no need for it.
About your 2nd post. I'm not sure where you got the whole "feelings" part of this out of what I'm saying, but I will say that I am saddened by your view of love. Who's talking about taking care of a baby's needs because it feels good. It's what love drives you to do. When did I ever present this a always having good fluffy feelings? To see it as a head commitment as though you are doing something you don't want to do, but you do it anyway because you're committed is pretty cold don't you think? I have 5 children and anytime one of them is crying in the middle of the night EVERY PART OF ME WANTS to be there with them. I'm not there because I'm "committed." I don't do it because it feels good (still not sure where you got that) but because I love them and there is no place I'd rather be.
Your 3rd post - Mike I fear that you literally see everything upside down from truth. Jesus didn't say, "If you love me, keep my commandments." You've got it backwards. He said "If you love me you will obey what I command." The difference is HUGE. He's saying that you will naturally obey if you have love. He's NOT saying that you have to prove your love for Him by obeying His commands. THE DIFFERENCE IS AS FAR AS THE EAST IS FROM THE WEST. You say He won't commit Himself to the uncommitted. Wrong wrong wrong. "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." That's pretty committed don't you think? As far as a commandment being a "love killer" I have no idea what you're talking about. Love FULFILLS ALL of the commandments. ALL
Your 4th post - No one is questioning whether love gives or not. The purpose of this article is to show people that the modern day Christian teaching on tithe in New Testament times is NOT a biblical principal, and it also doesn't line up with loves voice from the heart. Does love give??? If you read the article you should clearly see that my answer is a resounding YES. The whole mindset of assuming one person is superior to another over this is a concept that was not ever talked about in this article or any of my comments on this thread. The bottom line here is that love gives 100%. It's what Christ did. It's the nature of love. Restricting it to ANY percent is strangulation. that's the point of the article.
Mike, you wrote "The idea that "love" comes with great feelings that make you do the right thing is not true." It's not about feelings or emotions but I have a disagree with the heart of your statement. If you love, and you follow that heart, you will find that every single command from God is right in line with the heart of love. It's all about love. If you do something out of commitment buy have not love, you are a clanging cymbal. Your wife doesn't want to hear that you got up with her because it's your responsibility and you're a responsible man. She wants to know that you are there because you love her. Many unloving people are totally responsible and committed. It's all for nothing if that's you.
Hi Eric Since we agree that love is not a warm feeling or an emotion what exactly is love? How does it show itself? How do you know it is love moving you? Seems like htis whole discussion has started and staked everything on an undefined subject. We have take for granted that people know that when we talk about love we are not talking about passion or necessarily about encoutaging feelings. Yet most have staked their whole theology on this.
Eric, "The reason why so many Christians today need a bible verse to back up something is because they don’t have love in their hearts;" What a massive, unprovable and cynical judgment in an area only God could possibly know. It is as void of proof as your statement that tithing is not a Christian doctrine. I am a Christian and it is a doctrine of mine, so I have just proven you wrong in your assertion. If love just naturally flowed from Christians, why give them a New Commandment to love one another? The commandment is not averse to love.1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome." The idea that the principle of tithing precludes love as the motivation is untrue. Tithing can come from the heart.
I'm not going to keep this up. It's pretty obvious that you're not going to see this Mike. I feel like Jesus trying to explain "born again" to a head thinking Nicodemus who is entertaining pictures of a grown man trying to crawl back up into his mothers womb. I Don't believe you'll get this anytime soon Mike. In fact this article alone, calls you out and exposes you. That fact that you can't see these things it evidence that you are blind to the love of God. Christianity is a Bible study to you. It's something you memorize, and the person who memorizes the most, gets to be the pastor. Sorry Mike. It is my opinion that you have missed it all. You have failed to see the bold letters on the top of the chart. You'll never see this with your head.
It's one of those things that when you have it, you KNOW you have it and when you don't, you just don't. Children know what it is but adults can't figure it out. People with no education whatsoever can grasp it but people with PHD's many times can't even see it when it's right in front of them. If you don't have it, you probably know you don't have it so you'll try to replace it with things like knowledge and position. Good luck. Nothing replaces it. If you don't have it, you're empty.
Thanks Darin. I think you just proved my point. Apparently God's love in your heart that prompts you to do the right thing, the love that "never fails" love is not working through you, because you just gave up after what, 5 posts. What an amazingly short lived love this is? Peace.
It's not really giving up as much as it is purposefully walking away. If I thought you wanted this or wanted to try to understand this, I would stick with you for however long it would take for you to get it. That's not the case here and you know it. You're not here to try to understand. You're hear because you think you're right. Inspite of the fact that your personal relationships are empty and almost nonexistent, your desire to be the "smart one" always outweighs your knowledge that your hollow and lost. Your typical religious manipulation won't work on me Mike. You're not here to learn. You're here to cause problems. I will treat you how Jesus treated the Pharisees in His day. I'll dismiss you and walk away.
Mike, we all get revelation about truth at different times, sometimes the Holy Spirit has to break the power of what has been impacted in religious teachings, as long as you feel free to tithe go for it, you may never get what Darin has said and it will make no difference to Gods love for you or those that don't tithe.I am where Darin is and have been for a long time. When I srarted to tithe I did it because I thought I had to and I was pleased to do what I thought I should. I was taught that God would rebuke the devourer if I tithed (Malachi)so I had the added insurance on my possessions. but they still broke down or were stolen, then I saw that some part of my tithing was out of fear, add to that the fact that I saw the scripture you quote as being said to folk still under the law.
Mike I continue..., Using this space to argue for your beliefs only causes a problem and centres you in it, be free to disagree but be free to find out you may be wrong, no big deal in that, we've all had some things wrong in our walk with Jesus, Love continues unabated, blessings
My last bit on the subject, I so totally agree with Darin. Too much money is wasted on the machinery of organisations and not enough gets to the needy. If an IC did not receive tithes would it servive from love gifts? If not, perhaps it's a work of the flesh, Gods riches in glory abound to those involved in what He is doing, recession or not, He supplies all the needs for HIS work. I know, I've been there for a long long time and that with no letters, phone calls or persausive talks with anyone, just resting in His love for me and those He ministered to through me and mine.
This whole thought process of not just putting money in the plate as it is passed every Sunday is very eyeopening and freeing to me. For years I have had a heart to give to those in need but was taught that it would have to be over and above my tithe.This would be great if indeed I had that ability. I am only now realising the power of the "church" when it involves my money.I have family members that are in need of financial help.So now I give to them as they have need instead of putting it in the church coffers so that the building might get new carpeting (only an example.) I can lovingly give to someone who is in need. Whereas when I gave at church I often did so grudgingly, not that I would deny the Lord, but so often it felt like feathering a nest. Thanks for letting me vent.
I am 63 years old with another birthday coming up in a few weeks. It was not until about 8 months ago that I learned it's okay not to tithe. My husband and I left the church we were attending because we could not afford to pay tithes anymore and I knew it was required of members. That's why we haven't joined another church. I told my husband I have never felt this much peace in all my years of church attendance. I was raised to believe that you must pay your tithes no matter what. Later I learned about the financial blessings that were supposed to accompany tithing. At least that made it seem worth it. I had hope that someday God would bless me for tithing all those years. Well, a funny thing happened on my way to freedom. God began blessing us financially. Love you all. Becky
Mike sounds a lot like my dad. One comment he made really hit home to me. He said, "I love my kids, but that does not mean that I will give them the car." My dad always tithed my whole life even though we were poor and sometimes could barely make it. When I left home at 17 out of a desperate need to get away from the religious abuse I was experiencing, he did not give me a car. Nor could he afford to; tithes ate up any extra money he had. I had to bike and bus ride to two jobs to try to earn an $800 car for myself. My dad always tithed, but he never gave me any help at times when I was desperately broke. That is not the love of the Father. And that is why my dad and I have never been close. Not because he didn't give to me, but because I really don't think he had the capacity to love me.
Hi, been under this oppression for so long. I don't believe in the law on any level but I am still tormented by this. We are worship leaders that can't tithe, shoot, I can't even give. It is not that I am homeless and we are at a low middle class income but I am a disabled wife, but I never seem to be able to give to anybody. I am in grief over it. There is never enough money, I have bills that I cannot pay, I minister in my church in music every week and work my fingers to the bone and stress myself out every week arranging the music but I just am grieved at my own financial inadequacies. I wish I could have peace. I have adult children who are suffering too and can't even help them. Just bad all around and can't find any joy because of this burden.
Just so you know that you feeling this way has absolutely nothing to do with God. He isn't judging you on whether or not you give in the offering. This is religious oppression. He loves you and the only thing he wants from you is for you to know you're loved. Just relax and know you're okay. It really means a lot to him for you to be content in his love for you. You don't earn it and you don't buy it.
If you prove it from scripture, you are not inadequate in some way, that needs to be cleared up by the writer. The point he is making is not that there is anything wrong with the scriptural back up but it can be perceived in the heart. The body, soul and spirit are all connected. When our heart perceives a truth the spirit will confirm it with perfect peace. If we don't have perfect peace it is not of God, the stirring and twisting of the stomach will notify us that it is not of the Holy Spirit's approval. The author is trying to get us to see this in our spirit. Truth is confirmed by the Holy Spirit and experienced by the soul(heart) that produces in the body and nay or a yeah and amen. I have read Bertie Britt's scriptural back up and it is awesome, either way it is yeah and amen.
Bertie Brits wrote: This is a part of my Book called MONEY ON THE CROSS (unedited) to be released soon. I KNOW it is long but will change your life. I believe this is the TRUTH about the TITHE Let’s have a look at how Jesus was the tithe and brought a blessing to all of man by what He did. If we don't see Jesus in the scripture we are not reading the WORD of God. For many years we have tried to apply the tithe principle outside the fact that it is also merely a type and a shadow of the true substance which is the manifestation of Jesus and what He has done for and on behalf of us all. I have found... (continued) for more on this see Facebook Joseph Prince Ministrie blog subject TITHING IN THE NEW TESTAMENT http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=9880&post=55887&uid=5718674446#post5588
Darin, Father has used your writings to help me through my first Christmas without the IC. I was the bookkeeper for a mega a year ago. When the leadership was begging for $$$ and I knew the truth, I complained up the "chain of command". Leadership would not tollerate my independent thought and fired me. My IC friends are so concerned about our tithe. You have given me better responses to their self serving question. thanks
Hi, I hear you about this subject and being in a minister's family all my life I came across this site back in 2007. They have videos about this subject now about tithing. Please take a look if it will edify you to carry on with God. http://inyourbible.com/video.html Blessings. Joyful
Fear based religion sells itself.
Darin, I loved your wisdom and insight on tithing. Thank you so much. We have not tithed for years now after we studied the Word in detail and could not see it applying to us now. However we give our lives to the gospel, teaching, praying for the sick etc., only working part time to support ourselves. It is love that compels us to do this. However we can't make it public that we believe tithing is not applicable to the New Covenant as most ministers and churches would blacklist us. We only know of one pastor who has realised tithing is wrong for today. It is pretty frustrating at times - especially when you see people in bondage to tithing.
Just something to think about. Money is made from a tree then processed into paper inked and then we barter with it. Ask your self this: Would God curse me over a tree? after all I'm his son/daughter. Would you curse your children over a money a processed tree??? Think for yourself people.
Mike, if you require your children's obedience as proof of their love, Heaven help them!!!! Watch out for what they might require as proof of YOUR love!!!! I think you need to really get what the Father's love is. Read 1 Cor 13 as Darin posted again.
I appreciate that there are some seriously big problems in America regarding the health and welath gospel and its misuse of wealth, and while it is not unheard of in Australia, we certainly do not have it to the degree that America does. That is why it seems like the reaction to tithing is coming as a vehement rejection of health and wealth, but you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. God was the one who invented tithing, and Leviticus demonstrates the ingenuity of God's pattern for generosity, which is tithing. To proclaim that a pattern of tithing or generosity of your own creation is MORE generous than God's is an error based in false humility and pride.
God's pattern of generosity is divided into seperate areas, in which a payment is made to; Terumah/First Fruits - 1.67-2.5% of income given to God's "full time work force," the people who minister to God full time. Pastors, preachers, intercessors, etc. 10% of income. First Tithe - God's Workforce. 10% of income. Second Tithe - Set aside as savings, minus 10% for God's workforce. Third Tithe - Given to God's workforce and the poor. Offering for buidlings. God's Pattern of Generosity (tithing) is the BEGINNING of generosity. If you do all this, which is a necessary base for being generous, and desire to give more money on top of this, then you are FREE to do so for a generous, loving spirit.
Actually in the New Testament God Himself through Jesus Christ proclaimed a much more generous way in which he gave ALL, and not just 10%. In fact every example of giving in the New Testament shows the person giving EVERYTHING.
...the poor. Offering for buidlings. Beyond this, people are FREE to give as much more as they are able and generously willing. This is God's pattern of generosity, and it has transformational power beyond our wildest comprehension. Someone may be asking, why would the Christian church adopt a practice given by the Law?? Well, Christ is the Law keeper, and his spirit live is us, so why would we not keep the law? Certainly, there is a distinction between the sacrifical law and the law which Christ commanded we keep, yet the wisdom of Torah should not be set aside. Is it a salvation issue? no. But neither should we reject it. After all, salvation is from the Jews (john 4:22), and we do not reject that.
By the way, tithing was a law that applied to herdsmen and farmers. It was never in the form of money.
A great article! I always disagreed with tithing, but could never have articulated it like you did. Even fairly recently when a strong believer in tithing was expressing her views in an informal group situation I was totally unable to stand up for myself. We have given very little to the Church peferring to give in other ways. I must admit that perhaps I did deep down have a fear that I was doing something wrong. Thank you for freedom from that!!
When was the last time you heard a Pastor teach tithe scriptures like the following: Deuteronomy 14:22 - 26 You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year. You shall eat [your tithe] in the presence of the Lord you God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the first born of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the Lord your God chooses to set His name is to far away from you when the Lord your God blesses you,
then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place where the Lord your God chooses. You may spend the money for what ever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or what ever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the pres ence of the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your house hold.
Who does the Lord say should eat the tithe? And who has control over the usage of the tithe?
When you have finished paying all the tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger to the orphan, and to the widow, that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied. “…so that (they) may learn to fear the Lord (their) God always.” Deuteronomy 14:23 Take the family on a vacation and spend the money for whatever your heart desires? wine? strong drink? Heresy? NOT!!
I am a pastor's kid and now are in full time ministry, planting churches in New England. This have been a question in my heart since I have in the past few years re-evaluated everything I believe. If I tithe and it was not a NT command, what have I lost other than helping to advance the church. If my heart in tithing is to give it to the Lord, have I lost anything? I think not. Personally I have become a hilarious giver and have often given more than 10%. Sometimes all that I have and it has always been a wonderful adventure to watch God provide for me. HE IS AWESOME!!!
I think the bigger question Marietjie is, what if you DON'T tithe? Where will you stand with God then? What will you teach your people about that? Will He still bless you? Will He remove His hand of protection from you? Will He not open the windows of heaven and bless you? That's the bigger question.
Great article and comments. Thanks Darin. David Yeubanks and I are also good friends. Severl comments. fIRST YOU SAID "The difference between the Old Testament and the New is that now you own the house." Actually now God owns our body and the Spirit has moved into His body. Second, somebody said on your forum "The debate is endless." I disagree becasue the tithe-advocates will not continue an in-depth discussion over a few days becasue their arguments are not founded on good principles for the Church. Third, I would like to commend you for leaving a mega church and not compromising your understandingd of the tithe. God bles you. God bless you. God bles you.
I love the name of your ministry and I have read some of your beliefs and I feel we are brothers. My wife and I work for Bradshaw Christian School in Sacramento Ca. Why consider local ministrys above the poor and missionary giving? This is money tithe logic. Jesus gave us giving freedom. Most Christians parents most give to a church organization but they do not send their kids to Christian schools or buy Christian films. For about 2 years I have debated on a tithing and stewardship blog to help Christians find freedom. I was a youth leader and Christian rapper in the past and viewing ministry up close I began to become increacingly hostile to Church tithe doctrines. Darin I have freinds who were leadership at the dream center also. When I visit LA from Sacramento I might check you out.
I'd love to meet you someday Freewillgiver. Just so you know, I am not, nor have I ever been a Pastor at the LA Dream center. I was a Pastor at Phoenix First Assembly in Phoenix Arizona. Tommy Barnett is the one who started the Dream Center in LA. I didn't work there, I worked in Phoenix. I live in Phoenix now:-)
we have such a great salvation in christ Jesus. he paid for it in full with his own life. we cant buy his blessings for any ammount of money. salvation cost him everthing so it could be without money and without price like the prophet Isaiah said of our future redemption. to tithe on the basis of give to get shows a complete lack of understanding of the real gospel of Jesus Christ. you have a beautiful understanding of our awesome God. a pleasure to read. from the u.k
Craig - it's funny isn't it, when churches preach on the tithe, it doesn't even match OLD Testament scripture, let alone the NEW. It's just tradition. I always tithed because the church said to, and taught it. They don't teach other parts of the "law" though. Over the last few years I've accumulated debts which I would not have if I had not given so much into the church funds, mostly for the new building. Late last year I felt God was impressing upon me that paying off my debts was more important than increasing my debts to help the church pay off its debts, if you know what I mean. Since then I have stopped giving there and I also attend less.
Darin, what can I say but praying that God to richly bless you. Thanks for articulating the toughts of so many of us out there. From Nigeria