A Whole Other Animal
Darin and Aimee talk about the cycle that many Free Believers get caught in where they so badly don’t want to be like the institution they came from, they attempt to become the opposite of that system. Becoming the opposite of a thing is not the equivalent of freedom from that thing. True freedom comes when we are no longer concerned or preoccupied with NOT becoming one way, If we are striving to be the opposite of something we hate, we are just as much in bondage to that thing as ever. Freedom in the wild is about becoming a whole other animal that doesn’t even resemble what we’ve known in the past. It’s freedom to be whatever, without the concern for how it may or may not resemble something from your past.
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I recently have been attending the church I used to go to which was calvary chapel and couldn't believe what I heard and that was to go to the lord and that is what I have been doing the last 9 years.So what the heck!!!
And I see this backlash a lot, both on the forum and on the FB page. Granted, some folks still in the system bring this on themselves; but just as there were slaves who chose to stay on once they were freed, there are some of us who are free that still attend the IC even though we don't have to. Those of us in that category occasionally get blasted by our free brethren as "fraternizing with the enemy" or something like that. One of the great things about our freedom is that it will display itself differently with each individual.
very well put!
Great podcast, Darin and Aimee! I’m one of the free believers who still attends a local church. The truth is I go because I want to go and, at this point in my life, I have no desire to stop attending. Fortunately, I can’t say that I’ve ever felt personally attacked by other free believers who know I attend. They all seem to accept me just fine. That being said, I have been on sites where church bashing takes place. Like you, I believe that people need a place where they can vent freely about their church experiences until they’ve moved past that stage and I’m glad that the FBN Facebook page is a place where they can do that safely.
This is a wonderful podcast and absolutely profound! Stop trying not to be what you don't want to be and just BE who you are. Love it!
Darrin, Aimee,
This is magnificent! This is the best podcast I've ever heard from you guys! This goes such a long, long way to dispelling the image of you guys just being an "I hate church" club and revealing your real hearts for guiding those who have been injured by religion (not church) to real healing and restoration. Your understanding for those who vent on the church as part of their catharsis from religious bondage is awesome, as is your insight into that unprofitable tendency we have to try to be the opposite of what we came out of. In the end, that ends up being just as religious and artificial as what we have left. I myself have been part of a small house church that recently has become TOO small, and have felt the need to seek more fellowship. I found a very well known large church that I've started going to, and have encountered many very real and very godly people there who have become my friends.
For several months after listening to some of the podcasts here and reading some of the FB posts I struggled with whether it was a violation of my "principles" about how church life should be to be with this big church. But deep down I've felt that for me it truly has not been about the structure of the church or even some of what comes out of the pulpit, but about THE PEOPLE and being with other believers in His Body. I really do believe that many times people who are severely injured or in heavy bondage due to religion need to totally separate themselves from anything having to do with church in order to really heal from the bondage and discover who they really are in Christ apart from what others think or say. Sometimes God does that for us, against our will! My house church stopped meeting for about 2 years; during that time I had NOTHING. It was very hard, but I'm so thankful for it now, in that God was able to free me from a kind of subtle co-dependency on other believers...
...that is common in many very small churches, and enable me to actually hear HIS voice for MYSELF. Now, having gained that confidence, I am able to be in a place like this big church and not become overly disjointed about any minor error I encounter in this fellowship.
I liken this whole process to the recovery of a sex or food addict; they need to learn to abstain from sex or certain foods completely, with lots of help from therapists and fellow recoverers, until they are fully able to see sex or food in its PROPER perspective and in its proper, balanced role. In the meantime, there is a lot of venting and withdrawl pains that need to be suffered for the full recovery to take place. But once this has happened, food, sex, or church becomes safe again because WE are now changed. Thanks again guys.
Richard, what do you mean? Do you mean that what you knew all along was what our church was saying?
Yes Mike, very very well said...funny, you look strangely like the duke ;-) Thanks Aida...by the way...what is this about you saying 'I don't know Aimee other than from the podcasts' on the forum!? What's up with that, silly?! :-) Thomas, thanks for your posts...its so great that we can be free to CHOOSE what to do (in regard to church or anything else) according to what we like and what we want to become involved in. When I personally talk of the institution, I am more referring to the 'mindset' it entails...not so much 'churches that people go to.' In my religious past, many of the institutional/traditional assumptions about God, and what it meant to have relationship with him WAS handed to me by 'the church' but the truth is, many were ALSO of my OWN making, from my OWN mind...things that I assumed I needed to do or be in order to be accepted by God...these assumuptions that I concocted myself are just as much 'institutional' as anything I was taught. Cont...
The church was also a place where I was able to build some incredible foundations for my life, meet and be friends with some great people and have opportunities I NEVER would have had, had I NOT 'gone to church.'
To tell you the truth, I don't know if I am reacting to the past or if I am moving on to something different. When I went to sunday morning church, I was a passive spectator. Except in worship, where I was told when to stand and how and what to sing. There was very little genuine interaction with others. Often I would come away feeling like I was no more than a "fly on the wall". I mattered that much...it makes me sad. I know there were good people in the last church I went to...but it is so hard to reach them either because of the agenda or because of the programming they live in. I'm busy with my farm, with work, with kids, etc. that I find it hard to use up 2 hrs of a day to get 5-10 mins of relational benefit (fellowship). I really need something different... and I am lonely. I even tried to put an ad in a local magazine to see if there are other freebelievers in my area. Apparently not yet. I agree with you last posting, Aimee...
my overall experience in church did give me a good foundation for my life. But the church structure of spoon-feeding and passivity, keeps Christians overweight and immature, in my opinion. I am ready for something different...I've been reading "Pagan Christianity", and it is a shame that the reformers didn't go far enough with the exception of the annabaptists who were badly persecuted. We may have had generations of engaged and engaging Christians to look up to instead of an elite few...and Jesus' church would be that whole other animal today. Do you ever wonder why God let His church be abducted for such long periods? I don't want to bad mouth Christians or pastors but I do want to add my influence to the momentum that is shifting the focus of the church back to Jesus as the leader. It isn't just for my own benefit but I think hurting people are counting on on somebody to get it right. (Hopefully I haven't gotten off topic.)
Thanks for clarifying (for us newbies) what the FBN is about - the revelation of God's love and the freedom found in that - and that it's not anti-church, anti-leader, anti-institution. Darin, I hadn't realized that when you spoke of "the Institution," you were speaking of your own mindset!
Thanks for the "tweek" in my perspective. I have been totally angry with a system/institution where the climate for spiritual abuse was created and taught. I have totally left the place of ever wanting that kind of "experience" again. I was amazed that you said the "institution" was your own mindset. So much that I have heard you teach
has sounded like the same system that I came out of. Even
The "Man" described what I have been so afraid to get involved with again. In my experience, the people I know have just gone on, never questioning the system, just blaming one leader that they think was off. But, I have found it to be so much deeper than that.
I guess I would have to experience a "church" service that was TOTALLY unlike what I have known. It would be great to find. I need to open my mind to what the next place in my journey
will look like. Thanks Darin & Aimee.
Carol,
Thank you for your comments...I wrote in my earlier comment how I thought of it as more of a 'mindset' and totally forget Darin had stated that in the podcast ;-) So true though...it's so nice to know that there is life on the other side of such fear and religious bondange. As you stated, so many of us have experienced such bondage inside the walls of the church as well...sometimes we have to get away from 'the building' to experience healing.