Chemo-fear-apy
The average Christian has no idea just how much of their religious world has been laced with fear. The longer we live in the wild, the clearer it becomes that almost 100% of what we did in the church world was motivated by fear. FEAR is truly the god of this generation of Christians. Darin and Aimee discuss making the transition from the fear-world to a world motivated by grace. Things like prayer, faith, worship, hope, giving and even love have been processed like chicken nuggets in the institution and pumped full of fear, then served to the masses. For many of us, letting go of fear is very much like dispelling cancer or detoxing from heavy drugs. It’s a life or death decision.
To download podcasts, click on the 
to the right side of the player.
Copyright © 2012 The Free Believers Network | All Rights Reserved
Guys, it always feels good to hear you talking about it being normal to have this abandonment of religious activities like praying etc not even having any desire to pray anymore and maybe not even think about God for days/weeks (thou thats not really possible when listening to your podcast weekly...). Because I really ask myself sometimes if this is good or bat etc. You talking about this makes me feel that its just normal and OK. Thanks.
Sarah I agree but at times for me i think these talks are just faithless and dont encourage.Like im listening to people who are just like my co workers or next door neighbors who dont know the Lord at all and are rather morally loose with opinions and Sarcasms .But im wrong and thats all part of me and my mind renewal toward freedom.How do i get rid of years of religious thinking and deep down emdedded fears which were shrouded in judgementalism?The only way i know how is to quit being so hard on myself and lighten up.I was a classic IC. goer with years of teaching,singles groups,prison ministries and music ministering under my belt.In actuality I was Gods enemy and my own worse enemy full of pride and comfortably decieved.And Sarah i agree it is ok to be normal.TY D@A for being normal: )
A discussion on what God means by fear, healthy fear, would be interesting indeed. The kind of fear that births wisdom. God says that if you got the healthy kind of fear then the unhealthy kind of fear will not bother you.
Darin
If it wasn't for your podcasts I would have become an athieist long time ago.b/c Thank You!
Loved it! Thanks...
David, I came to the conclusion that I actually dont know the Lord any more then my neighbors or co-workers who dont claim to know him...and maybe thats not so easy to admit. So something in me says, that if God is who he is, I want to get found by him and no longer try to comprehend something I could not get in all those years. I also found out that some people who dont claim to know the lord and seem to have loose morals, are actually way much more loving and caring towards others. So who really knows the Lord? I dont make that statement anymore. And I would say people who love others genuinely probably know him without knowing that they know him...
Something that Aimee said really confirmed something I believed for some time now, "There is nothing good about fear whatsoever." When we have love, we don't need to rely on fear to motivate us. The Bible says that we have been given a new heart, a heart of love.
I love the illustration of children not worrying about being fed or keeping up with payments on the mortgage. It reminded me of a brilliant (and funny) analogy I heard once by Andrew Wommack of a child being held by it's father and anxiously praying, "I thank you Father that you won't drop me father. I think you father that you'll continue to feed me father." Truly, this is how many Christians pray today.
I think what some people perceive to be "loose morals" might just be honesty in the eyes of others:-) Institutional Christianity has become a religion of morality that has driven its participants into a world of secrecy and cover ups. We've created a stage full of actors who are each playing a role in an effort to gain acceptance and approval yet, in truth, no one person in the play is anymore ethical then the next. When someone comes out and speaks openly about who they are and how they REALLY think, it throws everyone for a loop. Our first thought is that they are immoral or have "loose morals" because they aren't covering anything up. A closer look proves that they are just like us; only free:-)
You know Darin and Aimee, I usually pay a counsellor $75/hr to find deep, wounded areas in my heart and to bring healing and relief. The discussion of the true meaning of holiness moved me to tears! Where do I send the cheque!
Another great podcast! When you were talking about the songs at your kids' VBS, It reminded me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBqe5xvYnNc. lol
Faith, at the moment we are only accepting Snickers candy bars. :-)
I'm laughing and crying at the same time! Please don't ever, ever change...These understandings of God's heart are starting to make a world of difference. You don't know how many times I came close to losing my faith because of teachings that seemed to set up so many contradictions in my mind. I think the fear mongering in some churches is like the stumbling block that Jesus warned about...I agree, nothing but anti-Christ stuff!
I remember reading Orwell's 1984. I know it was a political novel, but when I was reading it, I couldn't help but think of the IC I was raised up in. One of the main concepts of the book was to keep the people in constant state of fear from an enemy whose name changed all the time so they would all depend on Big Brother. This reverberated so deeply in my soul thinking of my own cult-IC upbringing.
$75/hr??? holy cow.... what a rip off? What is he thing he/she?LOL
Religion is a big business isn't it? To get the religious business going you need two vital ingredients. An angry god and a guilty conscience. Then you will have prosperous business. Oh brother.
Hagere, you might have jumped to a few conclusions, although I think you're right about the kind of money people will spend in the hands of religion. I however got better value for my money when I sought out "non-Christian" counselling. Counselling I had to seek out from time to time as a result of some family stuff and Christian expectations/teachings that only made matters worse! (Anyone ever heard of Basic Youth Conflicts back in the 70s, possibly 80s?)
no takers on discussing healthy fear? Jesus said He would show us whom we should fear.
I think know that preacher with an 'anoiting from hell'. I think it is John Bevere.
Read his books about 8 years ago and right after that I was diagnosed with anxiety attack and panic disorder - He ruined my life -
He came to st Catharines Ontario Canada and preached literally a sermon from 'hell' and my life is still a mess.
Good Job Bevere!!!
Sry for ranting -:)
Funny how I don't even have to mention his name and people know him from personal experience. Forget everything that man ever told you Hagere. He speaks nothing but fear and lies into the hearts of people.
Debbie we actually did a podcast on that topic. I spend a little time today looking for it, but I still haven't found it. We talked about what the "Fear of the Lord" really is. It was a good one. I'll let you know if I find it.
Debbie. Keep in mind when Jesus taught, it was before the new covenant was in place. With this people under law, fear is all they knew to motivate them so He spoke that language. Those of us in the new covenant who are perfected in love have no need to fear. We just have a respect and awe. The people who need to fear are those who don't love and simply choose evil. But God's children never need to fear.
Thanks Darin, I do hope you can find it. @ David - I do understand that David - I notice that whenever God talks of giving us a new heart in the Old Testament He also tells us what this heart comes prepackaged with - love is just one aspect. He talks in Jeremiah 32:38-41 of putting a fear for Him in our new hearts as well and I get that fear is the healthy fear that I would need - Proverbs 16:6 gives a distinction. I have been thinking about some stuff that I may have misunderstood about The Gospel lately - I just haven't formulated words to express my thoughts yet and then I think maybe this is not the place to express them - the difference between crossing the wilderness and walking through the Jordan.
After I left the church I was born and raised in, having been in one church for 24 years where I saw it all--mostly people were enslaved to the system while they and their families got sicker and sicker. The sicker they got the more they gave to the church. So then I started going to this really big successful church until they started showing Bevere video series. And yes he aroused fear--it was how he kept people glued to his every word. Then an elderly lady at my table reached over and slapped this other lady on the hand, telling her to pay attention. I thought, that's it--I don't belong here either. I could see there was something really wrong with all this Bevere worship and that was way before I started listening to this podcast. Keep up the heart work. Keep talking. It is helping.
As I am a little slow on the uptake I am gathering that Bevere is the pastor who wasn't named - lol! Not sure if I have read or heard of anything of his so I can't comment.
Thanks Faris, I will. Debbie don't even research it. Just keep doing what you're doing.
Ya telling me what to do! (Insert big grin), that just made me laugh out loud. I was just relistening to the chat again and I have decided that Jesus is God's form of chemotherapy to kill the sin and fear in us before we die. I will keep doing what I am doing with my healthy fear of God. I'm sweet with Isaiah 54 especially verse 16. Enough Bible talk from me now :) Just saying that I get the idea we can be more focused on our faith in the truth of evil and forget that in Him we are protected. And yeah..I blew the dust of my book last week and it took my mind to the places I needed to be so forgive me of my scripture quotes - I am feasting and just wanted to share some food.
Makes perfect sense Sarah Thanks : ).True Darin but where do we draw the line for ourselves?I believe in openess to interpretation but i also believe in absolute truth.When Jesus said to fear Him who can destroy the body and also cast your soul into hell was it absolute?However i dont think he meant it to make us feel guilty or ashamed or cower in fear from God.A fact is a fact is the beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord?But whaT ARE WE TO FEAR FROM A LOVING MERCIFUL FORGIVING fATHER?IVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THERE ïs FEAR That has TORMENT.Maybe im wrong and need more clarification from the grace persprctive perhaps fear means something else and needs to be explained.Anyway please overlook any legalistic tendencies i have.Im trying reprogram my mind From the Institution ; )
Darin, the podcast that you mentioned on "fear of the Lord", could it be "What to do with the scary verses" or perhaps "Discipline vs. Punishment"
John Bevere?! So it's not just me who think's he's really scary and intense then? That's a relief! I feel that he really does raise some good topics, such as respecting authority and intimidation from others. But it's the way he's just so intense and deliberately attempting to scare people into obedience.
I remember reading "Breaking Intimidation" and feeling that it was a good subject. But the whole book was full of testimonies that were always in the context of someone in full-time ministry being coaxed to confront people. Then finally just in a few lines, he mentions the root cause of intimidation - loving your life (selfishness).
I read a book, Gift of Fear; talked about an almost instinctual kind of fear that comes in a split second to warn of danger. (I believe this kind of fear can be God given) But culture has taught women to "be nice" and override this life-saving fear to their peril. Some Christian teachings do similar. We give some false teaching the benefit of the doubt because there was some good content. I wonder if that is how I slowly got sucked in? I wonder if that is why those warning signals that I was downplaying became chronic anxiety? I'm now learning to run away if I get a whiff of crazy-making teaching. Funny how some of Christianity gets this fear stuff all backwards - we teach the sheep to fear the sheperd instead of the wolves cloaked in certain types of ministries.
This is without a doubt the best pod-cast yet, at least for me. I got saved in an abusive group called the Church of Bible Understanding, where fear was used constantly to keep you in the group. Today I am detoxifying from institutional churches and this is where I am. I'm getting chemo-fear-apy treatment right now and I fight fear daily. I believe I will come out on the other end of this way healthier than I was. because I'm never going back to religion no matter what. Religion is like a cancer or drug addiction. I hate it and can never see myself getting into it again.
Debbie. The image of witnessing a Tsunami or a volcano comes to mind. Or perhaps a herd of wild elephants running through the Serengeti. I think Big. I think powerful. I think majestic. I think something that could easily destroy me and end my fragile life. Yet, I think of all of that that deeply loves me. Would fear be an appropriate word here? Not sure it fits. The problem with the Hebrew language is that there weren't very many synonyms or alternate words to better describe things. So I think more along the lines of awe. Scroll back into the archives of the freebeliever blogs and find mine entitled "rethinking the wrath of God." The other thing that comes to mind is that the Bible does say we can BOLDLY approach the throne of grace now. Boldly means without fear.
SO I think there is a difference in the usage of words. I would, in this modern era as we speak English and have more nuances and shades of meaning in our more complex language dare to venture another word than fear. Maybe it's because of what my trip through the IC did to me that I can't really use the traditional sense of the word fear when relating to God. I dunno.
I can't tell you how glad I was that you mentioned John Bevere! He and his wife came to our old IC several times and I STILL have those teachings ringing in my head after a decade :(
Now I don't feel bad that I threw his and her books in the trash a while back....along with 400 others LOL!
And Faith, I agree wholeheartedly on the value (spiritually and financially!) of the licensed non christian counseling. I got more benefit from that than in 25 years in the church. She was a believer,but she has freedom and didn't make that the basis of her counseling! She helped me begin to untangle the mess created by religion and suggested books that showed me a radically different concept of God when she thought I was ready. Where she left off with me, FBN is walking the journey with me now. Thanks!
Thank you, Darin. Timely.
Nancy I had book burning ceremony and burned all John and Lisa Bevere's books as well other well known authors books.
Bevere came to Canada few years ago to one of a very well known IC in southern Ontario area and he literally spawed a message from hell and grave coined it "the fear of God" ha?...It was quiet scary moment for me as I was in my teen years and I was venerable for all kinds of deception. So, Bevere called fire or demon, I don't what he called from heaven but, people were screaming, shaking, crying,,,, It was awful moment... I don't like that guy - He ruined my life. The funny thing is... if you check his websites Bevere still preaches the same nonsense and gets invited all over the world to promote his fear propaganda.What does that tell you?
Okay, being the Bible geek that I am, I decided to look up the verses that mention fear. Most use fear the Lord for those who do not know Him. There are times that we are told to fear God as his saints and one even tells to work out our deliverance with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12). Each of these could be taken out of context. However, when I read the context of these verses, it is God who doing all the doing in us. So if Christ is in us and we are to fear Him, then He is fearing Himself. And most of the verses are in the context of being a light to others.
My take-away is that I am not to fear others but continue to let God's light shine through me. If I need a place to direct fear, give it to God. He can handle it.
The Nancy who just posted could be me. My real name is also Nancy and I used to think that I should give my every effort to being a Nancy Nazarene--take that back--in the beginning I fought really hard not to be a Nancy Nazarene and then because a tragedy happened in my family I thought God was punishing me for not being dedicated wholeheartedly to my church. It was a lot more years before my eyes were opened. I just think it is fascinating that I saw the truth when I did, and that I left the institution before I even heard about this website. It is only because I am doing an online master's program (MLIS)--graduating in a few days at age 65--that I even found this place--I'm still in therapy untangling all the effects of fear, manipulation and control, working through all the damage done.
Jen. Very interesting way to put that "If I need a place to direct fear, give it to God." Which perfectly coincides with Jesus' teaching "Do not fear what man can do to you, but fear Him who can destroy your body and soul in hell."
David L...I guess we are trained to read scriptures a certain way and we miss the point because of that. I would say when Jesus or other people in scripture say that we should fear the lord, it has to do with respect of others, mainly the poor, widows, needy etc. And also that we should not overpower others. I dont think it has to do with morals. And it says that the fear of the lord is the BEGINNING of all wisdom. So whats the END or the MIDDLE PART, the CONTENT? And I guess it is LOVE. And with the love, the fear of the lord is no longer needed because one who loves does not manipulate or rip off other people, especially no needy, poor or widows etc...
I guess if repent or perish is the message for unbelievers and Darin says that 90% of those in the IC are unbelievers then they must be preaching the perfect message :) We who don't need the fear thing leave.
Thanks Sarah good insight - i never thought of that.Thanks again : )
Yes and Yes to others' experiences of John Bevere. But, that experience was soon followed up by God's grace in bringing Darin onto my radar. I will never forget how you pulled me out of the mud hole I found myself in after reading J.B.'s material, Darin.
Very timely, Aimee and Darin. I will send you guys the link to the blog post I'm working on when I'm done with it.
I can't wait to read it beautiful girl. Thanks for the kind words. Send me your blog when you're finished. I'll post it on the FBN site:-) In other words, I'll steal it.
Sarah, your comment is right on! When you're only taught to regurgitate, you learn to only come up with the same understanding of scripture over and over until you're so stuck that you feeling like you're dying on the inside. But when you are encouraged to think from your heart, the law no longer brings death but the word explodes into real meaning.
Faith I'm responding to what you said several days ago about the book you read called "The Gift of Fear." You said that we've been trained to fear the shepherd and not the wolves. That's one of the most insightful statements I've heard in awhile. It's so sad that it's true.
I know I'm gonna regret this :-) but because so many of you are discussing "the good kind of fear" and what the "fear of the lord" is, and because I can't locate the exact podcast I told Debbie we had, I am going to make an offer to the people on this comment section. If you email me at darinhufford@cox.net and give me your address I'll mail you the CD of the teaching I did on this subject. It's called "The Fear of Love." I think it will clear a lot of this up for you. It outlines exactly what the fear of God is. In the products section we have an entire series on Fear where I talk about this topic. Obviously I don't expect anyone to buy the whole series just for that one teaching so if you contact me, I'll send you the one CD. Blessings. (Debbie I'll send you the whole series)
There's a saying we use in our home, "sin makes you stupid and fear makes you crazy!"
Thanks Darin for the offer. I guess it would be a bit crazy to send the CD to Switzerland :-).
Maybe 666 means 666 antichrists!!!!
Sarah email me and I'll send it to you.
I am so appreciating everyone's input. I feel like I want to frame and hang up some of your sayings and collective wisdom on my walls. Thanks Fran, I will use that nugget with my boys...I'm on a mission now to teach them to be immune to religion.
Hey Darin and Aimee, thanks so much for your great podcasts (and book, Darin). I love what you have spoken of here, exposing the fear-factor as being the motivating tool of pastors to keep their "church machines" going.
I just felt to pop in a positive as well !!
My wife and I were called to pastor a church in mid-2008,(a church that has a 30 yr history of pentecoastal/charismatic legalism) and we have been specifically "tasked" to lead this group of people out of the bondage of legalism and all it's poisonous trappings, by introducing and preaching pure grace and the unconditional love of the Father, and total liberty and freedom, with no obligations and expectations of man.
...continued
We have been met with two reactions : One of absolute awe and wonder at the beauty of the REAL good news, and the other of insecurity of having the fear boundaries and man's manipulation removed [of which many have upped and left, unable to cope WITHOUT fear's grip - sad :( ]
Slowly but surely the good news of our freedom and liberty in Christ is sinking in, and other new visitors are beginning to hear the good news, and experience freedom. It's not an easy task to tackle the religious spirit IN your midst, the ANGER of certain people who deem themselves to be good christians, suddenly having their self-righteousness exposed by the light of the truth, YET, IT IS ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT SEEING OTHERS EXPERIENCING THE FREEDOM TO BE THEMSELVES !!
Keep up the good work you're doing!!
Hey Ed you're daing right its an addiction.But if I were to get religous again I think I would be an atiest.Even though they deny the existence of God at least God is in their thoughts.Its like my dad asked me in the middle of my year of depression "Where is your f___in God now?" as he threw my bible across the room.After 24 years of trying have a heart to heart discussion about the loving grace of God I think we finally started having one!!!
Hi Darin, I'd love to receive the CD, sounds like it might really help to resolve the undefined fear in my system ever since leaving the church... Is Holland too far away to send it to though.. ;-)
No Daisy, it's not too far.
Darin, I'm new here and have only listened to a few of the podcasts, but if I could get a copy of this one: Chemo-fear-apy, I would appreciate it. I've been walking free of the IC for some years now, but I see there's still a long walk to go. Even after leaving the IC for all their fear-mongering, I realize that I put up my own protocols that were just as fear-based and so, in a couple of significant areas, I am still feeding the habit. To listen to this a few more times in the car, etc would help me see even further the fears I have subscribed to and to, then, stop nurturing them. Lots o' Love to ya. W
Hey Darin - I found a blog you wrote on the fear of God - I'm speechless.
Hi Debbie, would you mind posting the link to it?
Thanks, found it
http://freebelievers.com/blog-entry/what-is-the-fear-of-god
Hey Darin - the cd's arrived today - thank you.
Wow...I'm with you, Aimee, on the not praying thing. I just don't have the desire to "pray" in the way I used to. Prayer to me now is just talking to God....talking to Him about everything...sometimes just in my thoughts and sometimes actually out loud....whatever comes naturally at the moment. And it's funny cause I have some friends who will send out e-mails with prayer requests or they will tell me to "please pray for so and so"...and I used to say "ok I will" just to not be rude to them, knowing full well that I am not going to pray for so-and-so because there's no desire, no prompting...I don't see God in that way anymore. Anyways, now when somebody asks me to pray for someone or something, I think I try to change the subject and maybe even try to throw in a grace nugget somehow....but I won't say "Ok I will" anymore.