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Nov 29, 2017

Giving Up Control of Life

Darin and Hans have a great conversation about letting go and experiencing all that life has to offer. Whether it be good or bad, you are not alone. Rather than trying to escape all the hard things in life, just know that He is with you in everything.

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    Knowing he is with you? What does that actually look like? Even Jesus felt forsaken by the father in his worst moments of suffering. I might be a bit stupid but it is like saying,as a hypothetical example,that when you lost your leg in that auto accident it was ok because your mother was there with you. She was driving and then watching it happen but did nothing to avoid the crash. Just her presence would not make it any better! More likely to make you rather upset.

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    I know what you mean Jac, I am confused by all of this because we're taught to call on God in our troubles (we do)...but I feel that I need more than comfort in real need so why can't we have the all-powerful God in times of real difficulty? There are types of problems and pain that only God can resolve. I think Christians have failed to love others during times of crisis...maybe if I'd had people to support me in difficult times I wouldn't feel so disappointed in God...jury is still out on this one.

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    I understand entirely Christie. I can only conclude that God CAN'T intervene. If he could surely he would. My hope is only that he weeps with us. I can't help but think that all the Christian talk of his marvellous intervention is nothing more than ascribing favourable coincidences to him and his comfort is merely nice self talk. I sound faithless and "bitter" (that word used to dismiss hurting believers) but I am just tired. Tired of questioning and getting nowhere, tired of thinking too much, tired of broken expectations, tired of hope unfulfilled, tired of second guessing myself, tired of my broken heart, tired of the whole business....

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    Another perspective is that life is a game of cricket. The enemy can get hundreds of points on the scoreboard before we even get a turn to, to put a positive spin on things, it could be that we're only at the beginning. The longer our pain and suffering, the more humiliating and humbling it is for our critics/the enemy/bitchy church crowd/whoever, when things finally turn around. Kind of like Job's story. I do believe that God is powerful but I wish I could understand why he doesn't seem to readily intervene sometimes. I understand that at a macro-level when a society rejects God's moral absolutes, life is just going to get tougher (poor leaders and laws etc...) but at the personal level, I don't want to be clumped in with everyone else when I have sought God Okay, definitely talking in generalisations etc..however, I have seen God intervene in my life in big ways but I've also felt very abandoned too. Maybe we could ask for his perspective on our lives?

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    Jac, great insight. I am also quite confused and tired. To Darrin and Hans, I am a recovering from christian religion and have found myself high five-ing most of what is discussed, and am greatly relieved I am not alone. But I too do not have or have ever known a "he is with you" feeling. I have read about "him" just as I have read about George Washington or Santa.

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    I can't look at the book of Job and see God's goodness and love. I see a man desperately seeking to understand his awful suffering in this world. So he imagines a scenario where God and the devil have an argument about his loyalty to God and his suffering proves God right. (After all who was privy to the argument to write about it?) The story portrays God as a cruel heartless chess player in the sky and us as pawns. I can't believe God would ever allow someone to suffer so just to prove a point to the devil. (And giving Job more children would never have replaced the pain of those lost unless Job was as shallow as the god he claimed to believe in.) I am sorry but I do not find scriptures like Job to be enlightening or in any way comforting. Just crazy me I guess.

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    Hey Jac, I was referring to the, 'lord blessed the later part of Job's life more than the former'. Given that he was a pretty wealthy man with a large family, this sounds like decent compensation. The part I find comforting about Job is the possibility that my problems aren't always a result of my wrong doing or just limited to my dumb little world. But yes, I understand the pain and discomfort felt by reading such a book and have been in the depths of despair myself for long stretches. I think the ending of Job amazed me as I was only taught at church about the "loss" side of things...I've noticed too since leaving church that much of scripture isn't as doom and gloom as I was taught...perspective and context changes a lot...just hoping I can get a change of perspective on my own life!! If I hadn't been taught so many 'untruths' I probably wouldn't feel so down about the suffering. As an ex-church person I get suffering with a side of guilt making things harder to accept.

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    Another possibility: And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus. - Philippians 4:19 Your needs and My riches are a perfect fit. I never meant for you to be self-sufficient. Instead, I designed you to need Me not only for daily bread but also for fulfillment of deep yearnings. I carefully crafted your longings and feelings of incompleteness to point you to Me. Therefore, do not try to bury or deny these feelings. Beware also trying to pacify those longings with lesser gods: people, possessions, power. Come to Me and all your neediness, with defenses down and with desire to be blessed. As you spend time in My Presence, your deepest longings are fulfilled. Rejoice in your neediness, which enables you to find intimate completion in Me. Jesus Calling

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    Sorry Brett. That is exactly what I am talking about that doesn't happen for me. And I have a lot of years of waiting behind m! I cannot pretend it works that way. I know all the Christian "reasons" (not enough faith etc) but those are just diversions that keep it together for those who think it should work for everyone because they believe it works for them. Not meaning to be negative, just honest.

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    I know God doesn't need defending, but that is what you do when you love someone. You speak up for them. It broke my heart to hear you say, JAC, that God "can't" intervene. Darin has said that if you don't have any personal experiences with God, then how can you tell others about him. I'm here to say that my God CAN and does intervene at His will. I have had rough times, but He always shows up when He determines it is the right time. In the meantime, I have a million questions of "why" when I meet him, and I CHOOSE to trust in Him until then. All I know for sure is that when I was 14 years of age, He showed up in a very personal way that I will never forget, and He has been there since, through thick and thin. I love Him and I KNOW He loves me.

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    s phillips

    I believe that when we come face to face with God we will not be asking why but will be saying,"of course". God knows us better then we know ourselves and to let Him be God in all situations is where life finds rest and peace. Thank Him that you are not God left to figure out on your own all of life's situations. Trust me you would be in a bigger mess then you would know how to handle. We are intertwined with other peoples lives so everything that happens effects others too. You may think things should be different for you but you can't see the chain of events in the whole picture.

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    S phillips, I assume you are speaking to me? I get how the process works.

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    I just don't think you people are LISTENING. I am not attacking God that you need to defend him (he is perfectly capable of defending himself if need be - lightening bolts, fire, illness and so on). I am not discounting YOUR experiences so please do not discount mine. All I see are the tears in his eyes and that has to be for now enough. No revelations, no wonderful experiences of his presence and intervention. In fact when I have made decisions that I thought were guided by him is when I have made some of my worst decisions. I know all the "he knows best" an "trust him" arguments but they just do not work in some situations. All the trust and acceptance in the world do not heal a broken heart. But he does weep with me.

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    Jac, I'm sorry you are struggling with issues.I can appreciate that. It's just that some of the comments over the last few blogs have hit me the wrong way, especially talking about becoming an atheist. That's pretty heavy stuff. It's one thing to complain about our experience in the church world, it's another to turn against God. For me this site was about still loving God but learning to love God away from church. I wish you all the best.

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    s phillips

    Jac, let's say you were dating my daughter and then something happened and you broke up. Now you are telling everyone that will LISTEN what a horrible mean spirited person she is. I know my daughter I know she is not the person you are saying she is. I am not defending her I am just telling you the person I know her to be. Then let's say later down the road you meet again and she tells you she never stopped loving you and that you misunderstood what she meant or believed to be true. When you have a revelation of the love of God and His grace your whole world will change. My New Years wish for everyone would be to know God's amazing grace.

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    The tears in his eyes are in a way my revelation. I am afraid at times of becoming an athiest but I am not there yet. I just believe that God and how He does and doesn't work in this world is way different for some of us than the cosy comforting intervening God often talked about. I know his love in that he weeps with me. And I believe he understands me. He just remains silent and uninvolved - he can't do otherwise for some reason or he lovingly would. Sort of like if you have something bead happen like you lost a loved one and everyone chided you for weeping but then along came someone and simply wept with you even though they knew couldn't fix anything. Those tears would mean everything. I am not turning against God or even saying nasty mean spirited things about Him. I am just trying clumsily to explain my experience of him and how he does or doesn't work in this world. Sometimes those tears in his eyes seem to fade a bit as I struggle and question but it always come back to them.

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    Nicely said, s phillips. Thank you

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    I am not divorced from or turning away from him. I think I should just give up trying to explain where I am at honestly. What if the guy divorced from the daughter still felt attached to her and loyal to her? He would probably be bewildered by what happened and be self-blaming to no avail. The circumstances of life just went all wrong for the couple. But what if they discovered each other's tears - who knows what could come of it. Maybe reconciliation even. Maybe they would see each other's love in those tears. Relatives may be busy blaming the guy for misunderstanding but reconciliation is more likely to happen if blaming is out of the equation. Tears can be cleansing. Does anyone understand what I am talking about? Maybe you can't unless you have reached that point.

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    Jac,It doesn't feel right leaving the post with you asking does anyone understand what I am talking about and no one responds. What you try to share even if we don't fully understand one can feel your pain. I think your shared tears with Christ is a good place to be at. It shows you do know God has compassion and does care. I certainly don't have all the answers but when I came to understand God's love and grace (about 3 years ago) it was life changing. A resource that helped me was Tullian and his books one way love and Jesus plus nothing equals everything. A couple years ago he messed up his life and is paying the consequences but even though the messenger may be flawed the message still stands. You can access him at where he has articles and some sermons available. Wish you the best and a blessed New Year.

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    Thankyou s.phillips for you kind reply. Just that you cared enough to reply compassionately means a lot to me. Maybe God's love comes to me through people like yourself!

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