Oct 28, 2011
Knowing When To Quit
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You are a good friend darin, to take time to make sure Robert processed this experience in a healthy way and redeemed it's value in a solid life story.
Robert, great job on the 1/2. I'm glad you knew when to stop. I had to bow out of IM KY last year due to heatstroke and dehydration. It really IS harder than not finishing. Glad you're doing ok and you listened to your body.
Just listened to this, the part about God telling you to quit on a bad marriage is so true. It happened to me the end of 2008. My husband of 7 years (second marriage) was continually cheating on me. The last time he met someone online and was going to meet her in Canada (I live in the Uk) God spoke to me so directly, saying 'Get Out'. I absolutely knew it was right, we are now divorced and my relationship with the Lord has vastly improved. To me it showed that my relationship with God is so so much more important then hanging on in a marriage where only one person is working at the marriage.
I had forgiven my husband on the previous occasions of adultery, but it was clearly destroying me, the pain was horrendous.
After the divorce, God helped me work through the pain and I was able to forgive my husband.
I really enjoyed this podcast. This is so huge-KNOWING when to stop. It's so easy to listen to all of the voices in your head (so to speak) of "never" do this or that. But the truth is, you HAVE to listen to the small voice inside-The Holy Spirit. And never look back. Thanks so much for this podcast. It was very freeing. I'm sure it will be for a lot of other people too.
Iris, what a great example of this. I can't imagine telling someone to stay together with somebody just because "God hates divorce". God would want anyone to get out of abad marriage like that-because it's hurting someone. It's a tough issue. There most definitely isn't a formula.
Thanx guys for this great discussion. Especially as applied to divorce (and abortion) - I hope you do follow up soon with more talking about this. It's an area that I think has been swallowed up in legalism and "christians" do not get that you can be "legally married" but never have been married at all because there is NO love. And yes, there is such shame in the "church" setting under what THEY label "quitting". God's word to my husband and I was "you're excused sweetheart". We spent our youth pouring all our energy into an institution and there came a day when we realized we were "beating a dead horse", truly. And God released us - and yes we suffered guilt, received condemnation, rejection, are viewed as "dangerous", troublemakers. BUT because we exited that energy draing environment we can now use that energy on loving precious people who will never enter the doors of any such institution. Thanks again for looking real life down the throat and applying love.
wow Moe. Thanks. I like what you had to say. You moved my heart. Seriously. Thanks.
Its a touchy issue. If at all possible you should try to make it work.Too many people go into marriage like the hells angels parking their motorcycles toward the street when in the bar-to make a quick getawy.One foot in and one foot out isnt cutting it any more.Lawyers are experts at getting you out of a marriage and will accommadate .The problem i see is lack of love.There is no love without commitment and theres a lot of that-lack of commitment these days.Smith wigglesworths wife showed him love and patience until one day he recieved Jesus and it chaged his entire life.He then was able to cope.Sometimes we loose patience much to quickly.Remember God is long suffering toward us(while we were yet sinners Christ died for us) and it encourages us to be long suffering and patient with our loved ones.Never quit on showing Love but hang in there to the End-Love takes no account of wrongs done to you.God Richly bless -good talk though!
I appreciate what you are saying David. Truly too many people enter into marriage for all the wrong reasons and yes these days committment is not valued as it should be. There is a lot of immaturity out there and we need to help each other with that. However, there is also a lot of abuse out there and some of the worst of it hides in religious garb, unfortunately. Suppose you marry someone you believe to be honest, loving, godly but one day find he is incesting your children, or begins to methodically beat you on a regular basis, or you learn is a closet rapist or murderer. These are extremes I know - but I believe that real love stands up and says "no" and in love releasing such people to God and out of "marriage" is not only not wrong, it's courageous. I've seen way too many people endure unspeakable things in an effort to "please God" and their "pastor" and church members. We have GOT to deal with a real world, real people, and do better - in my passionate opinion.
I gotta tell you... when you threw the bucket of grace on divorce and abortion it angered me in a strange way... I've had both and was shamed, ridiculed, asked to leave the church so I didn't "defile" the others there and ragged on more times than I could recount. My first thought was, "And I went through all that hell???"
I'm so glad to hear grace preached on these subjects. Maybe those going through it now won't have to suffer the hell from "christians" that I went through. Great job you guys! PLEASE talk more about these!!!
I'm thinking you need longer podcasts!! :-)
I just want to send you a BIG hug Just Me. Dear heart, there are LOTS of us women out here who have had abortions but it is a secret we had to keep at all costs in the "church" setting. I had one when I was 18, previous to entering "the church" but it was still something I had no freedom to talk about or be ministered to . . .had I been promiscuous? Yes, but there is background - NO little girl says "When I grow up I want to sleep around, get PG, and have an abortion, that's what I want to do." There is so much that leads up to that behavior and those crises and decisions and I know my Jesus does not hesitate to bathe women like us with mercy, grace, understanding, insight, and love. He was THERE - He knows what misguided "church" folks can never know about our "behind the scenes" and they have no business judging or condemning - Jesus didn't/doesn't and thank God! And honey, I apologize for all the harsh things done and said and I pray loving understanding will wash all that away.
At the end of my last marriage, I asked God to forgive me for the divorce. He said "No, but I will forgive you for getting yourself into that marriage in the first place, I have something better for you."
Great discussion guys! And congrats on you Robert for what you did complete in your race. 3 years ago I did a triathlon for the first time. I learned alot through it, and am thankful for the experience. Funny it was during my divorce that I decided to do the triathlon and best thing I ever did. Thanks for the grace on the subject...@ David L, you speak of Smith Wigglesworth wife, that testimony was spoken of to me and became part of why I stayed until I heard God speak to my heart do you trust me? I had no idea what He meant, I just knew in my heart to answer with yes. The next day, my unhealthy marriage had the last straw broken and my daughter and I had to leave to stay safe. I have heard it said submit and God will move on your behalf. I did stay, submit and believe for 24 and half years, through infidelity, physical, emotional and verbal abuse. My heart is for marriage, but thats not love or a marriage sometimes knowing when to quit is an answer of love.
On the prohibition on divorce except for marriage infidelity, not many teach the last words Jesus said on that after his apostles objected saying "it is better that a man not marry if that is the case"; Matt 19:11 "Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given."
Jesus can and will give us the right course of action to take. The prohibition on divorce based only on marital infidelity is not the end of the story and, based on the words of Jesus, clearly is not meant a universal principle like many teach. Matthew 19:12b "Let anyone accept this who can." Jesus knows how difficult and painful this decision is. Although not a license to divorce for any reason it is rather a course of action, listen to Him (not legalistic teachers) and He will direct us through such a difficult time. The Corinthian injunction 7:10-14 when taken as a whole, is based on a believer married to an unbeliever who should not divorce for that reason alone.
John...well put. Love the clarification of that context. I would add if a spouse leaves or emotionally/mentally quits a marriage, I wonder if they really are an actual believer. Even religious people aren't believers. Actual believers are in love and live that life of love.
Ransom,do I understand you to be saying that "if a spouse leaves or emotionally/mentally quits a marriage" as in divorce? under some of the circumstances described above? that you question if they are actually believers? Perhaps I'm misreading or misunderstanding.
Moe. I learned a lesson awhile ago that has always proven true. We don't speak what we believe, we do what we believe. You can tell what a person believes not by what they rant about, but by what they actually do, how they live and relate to others. A believer is someone who lives in and walks out in God's Love. In short, they are beings of Love. Casually quitting a marriage for selfish reasons, usually it is many years of a pattern of selfishness (I saw this in my last marriage) tells me volumes of what a person actually believes.
I also like to say that there are a lot of "Christian" atheists out there. They speak Bible, they talk Church, but really they don't believe a word they say because I see how they live. If I believed there was a million dollar check in my name in the mailbox right now, my actions would show it by me going to the bank and quitting my job.
I wanted to start by saying that after listening to countless podcasts and other things on the website, I have found that something inside of me does testify to so much of what is being said and the idea of living in freedom and relationship with God. I don't want to be one of those people that this podcasts "hits wrong," but I did want to share that my heart is grieved over the lack of love in marriages and how easily we seem to give up. It seems that we greatly lack the attribute of faithfulness that Jesus exemplifies. I absolutely agree that the message of grace should be extended to those who have had abortions, we are ALL in need of grace! After all, Jesus extends mercy so why would we not? I also must say that it grieves my heart to think that there would be "legitimate times for abortion" and that God would advise someone in their heart that it is the "right thing to do." I wanted to share my heart on the subject. I want very much to understand the heart and character of God.
I really suck at fantasy football. I know it's time to quit.
I agree that casually quitting a marriage for selfish reasons is all to common amongst believers and non-believers alike. However, living by a concrete rule of "no divorce ever" throws a young man who feels he made a mistake and can't live with his 3 week old bride because "she leaves all the cupboard doors open" and a young woman who marries her college sweetheart, has 3 children and then learns he has two other women set up in households with whom he has had children as well and also has irreputable extracurricular activity on the side (true stories) - both in the same boat. The young woman sought counseling and her husband insisted he "loved" her and the others too. She opted for divorce but in spite of the situation it was she who suffered the church divorcee plight. There is a big difference between these 2 situations, and life "this side of heaven" being what it is I think we can afford to grant this woman mercy - wether she opted to go or to stay.
As for "legitimate times for abortion" one needs only to get out and see the faces and hear the stories - my own hardcore certainty of "right" changed the day I met a little 12 year old girl sitting on her new foster mothers knee with a flat effect expression and sad brown eyes saying over and over "My daddy hurt me . . . " She was mentally shattered and having been "low functioning" to begin with they had little hope of her recovering . . . and no, I don't think Jesus would expect that little baby to have to carry her father's baby.
I don't think this is a one-size-fits-all discussion. There are times to tough it out and help your partner and there are times to leave. I don't believe we were meant to suffer the rest of our lives over one bad decision. When the love is gone, and has BEEN gone, and you are making each other miserable, then it's time to call it quits. If you care about your partner enough to stay and help them through whatever is going on then you should - as long as there is no abuse. I don't think marrying or divorcing is something that should be taken lightly, although sadly that appears to be the case so often these days.
Darin, I would love to hear a discussion about "divorcing" friends and family. I heard you mention in the past about having to just let relationships go because they weren't healthy or couldn't be reconciled right now. It helped me to realize that just because I am related by blood to a person doesn't mean I have to keep trying to keep an unhealthy relationship going. I also had to step away from a 15+ year relationship with the person who "led me to the Lord" because I finally realized how controlling they had been. I had accepted Christ but lost myself.
Robert, I know it was disappointing to have to quit the race so close to the finish but thanks for taking care of yourself. The podcasts wouldn't be the same without you!
One thing that drives me absolutely bats is how the Bible is used. Many churches and pastors in situations like this use the Bible as a means to control and bring someone into submission. The Bible is meant to be used as a means to empower people and set them free to live the best life possible. It was meant to protect those hurting, weak, and outcast in society and to admonish us to do the same. What infuriates me is the heartlessness people use the Bible with. the Bible was meant to be read with the heart intact, not suspended. The attitude I have gotten from many Christians is "This is what the Bible says, that's that, screw how you feel, submit to God." Which, by the way, isn't a far cry from Islam or other cults out there. The Bible is the book of the heart, not AGAINST the heart. so in matters of the heart like this I say be careful and tread lightly.
@ Moe......... thanks :-)
@Ransom - You are correct, your faith is what you live, not what you say. You can know a person by what they do, seldom by what they say.
@Paula, yes all situations and people are different. What works for one may not work for another. That is why love and grace are applied based on the union and relationship, not on a supposed principle divined from scattered scriptures.
@Ransom - You are correct, your faith is what you live, not what you say. You can know a person by what they do, seldom by what they say.
@Paula, yes all situations and people are different. What works for one may not work for another. That is why love and grace are applied based on the union and relationship, not on a supposed principle divined from scattered scriptures.