MIDWEEK - Can We Be Led Astray?
Darin and Aimee confront the common concern that some have voiced when visiting the FBN site or the Facebook page, when they encounter posts that advertise skewed doctrine or bad theology. Some people have suggested that as long as we allow people to post whatever opinions they have, we are running the risk of allowing them to lead people astray. Is it really possible for a person who knows God to be led astray? Would being led astray be evidence that a person was oblivious to truth in the first place or is this a justified fear? How far should we go in order to “guard the sheep.” At what point is it just a matter of control and manipulation? Who’s job is it to guard our hearts against false teaching and how do we go about that?
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Good subject, thanx for the discussion.
I'm one of those that believe that God is in control 100%. Its not the creations place to control who goes astray. Control is religion.
God is the one that leads our steps. When man starts trying to control my steps and what I have to share; then I'm out of there.
Love this!! I've been thinking about this exact thing. And actually I wanted to ask you guys.....when do we step in and say something to a friend regarding something we see that might be detrimental to them and when do we trust the Holy Spirit with them? Cause I know there was a recent podcast where you, Darin, were saying that true relationship gets into the lives of others and here you're kind of saying that you might need to step back and let the person try it on there own and learn from it (in the example of the girl who might fall for the guy who wants one thing). I'm wondering where is the line? I guess there is no line....we can trust the Holy Spirit to show us when to say something to our friend/loved one and when not to. When it happens to me, I'm thankful for the friend's concern but then on the other hand, I'm thinking, "I need to work this out....me and God....I'm going to learn from this."
Kinda funny....I paused the podcast in order to post my comment before I could forget what I wanted to say....and then when I continued listening I realized that you guys pretty much answered my question already. I guess that's like in school when the teacher used to say wait till the end to ask any questions because your question might be answered.
Anyways, love love love this and love u guys....you are such a blessing! I have a close friend who lives in AZ and I might go out to visit her in the middle of December. If I do, I might make you guys get together with me for coffee or something :-)
I believe a lot of it is coming from people in traditional church system. there seems to be a move of people leaving the IC SYSTEM and not going to the big event on Sunday morn but looking for a more relational setting through other ways of getting together and hearing God instead of a man up front. they seem to see that as leaving the faith or leaving the covering etc..
Great subject. I have participated in the FB page (commented) and I have seen things said, and wondered, "gosh I can't believe Darin would let them get away with posting that". more so in the Post, rather than the comments. This podcast really helped clarify for me and understand better the thought process behind all of this. 2 really great points I thought were 1.What is led astray? anything that goes against what I believe?, probably. I didn't want to think that of myself, but most likely true. 2. Aimee's comment "knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." good stuff. One of the post's writers, said one time, they are not a christian, the bible is not God breathed, and that it has no authority over them. I was like "what? Darin needs to talk to this guy, if he is kinda running the show here" But I took a long time to ponder those statements. I am not sure truly, to this day, where this persons theology is, or even if he believes in Christ. I hope so, but I wonder why it matters to me?
This subject has been weighing on our minds too. Seeing other's comments on the matter just affirms to me this is God's timely topic for us all.
I have seen other FB posts from folks that seem to represent free believers that concern me too. Like Dave, There are some comments that irk me and I am more concerned why it bothers me than trying to fix someone else's thinking.
I am grateful that Darin (or anyone else) is not trying to play Holy Spirit and control this. The dynamic and personalities here are much like our house churches.
Let Him and love reign in us all.
What do you do with someone who feels their "quest" is done and they have nothing to offer but agenda?
Jesus is not my religion where others are aloud to disagree with and have whatever opinion they choose, he is a very important relationship to me, and I will take up for Him the same as I would take up for my family.
Would you really join a group where people had weird, sexual opinions about your wife or daughter? Would you sit there and hope that someday they would come to the same conclusions that you have about your family? Probably not.
For example:
Angie is gay, she is having sex with her girlfriends. She wrote a wonderful book on how to raise kids, love, marriage ect.. however, it is not true,it is full of lies. She even gave her life to save her children, however, we decided they could have lived with or without her sacrifice..
I don't see any difference between our savior and family. If people want to have disgraceful opinions about my family or Jesus, that is fine, however, I choose to not sit and be apart of it.
Sandy
Imagine someone coming to my house - sitting in my kitchen and saying such wrong things about my wife, and I respond by packing my bags and leaving my family. If an ignorant person who doesn't know my wife stands up and says ignorant things about my wife, I would shake my head and walk away from the person. I wouldn't walk away from my family because of this person. A person's idiotic and ignorant opinion DOES NOT contaminate the house in which they expressed it.
Good point. Will think it through some more.
Thanks Darin.
As a result of my being on the previous two podcasts (mid-week) I have met many new friends who are in a similar place in their journey with the Lord. Just last evening I met one of them for dinner at a local diner here in New Jersey to amazingly discuss the SAME thing, the very same topic, "My sheep hear My voice...", where it came up that a pastor in a "normal" church felt it was his responsibility to "protect" "his" flock. It is absolutely astounding that today's podcast was on this very SAME topic. God was in this all the way, it truly was a "divine appointment", and His timing is always impeccable. I thank God for our friendship, Darin, and for the awesome opportunity to share our faith and questions together in complete honesty, transparency, and without judgment/criticism. May all who hear this present podcast be set free from the belief, bondage, and sole dependency on hearing the Shepherd's voice only through a pastor. It's time the sheep realized THEY have ears to hear!
Broadcast was excellent
Very good broadcast, listened with great interest.
The subject of being 'led astray', having been there twice since giving my heart to the Lord.
Firstly back in 1978 after just receiving Him, got involved with a bad cult, the Lord brought me back to himself, big rescue mission on His behalf:)
Secondly, after getting involved with the 'prosperity' teaching of the 80's, this time I 'ran away' from the Lord, threw in the towel with christianity. Again, the Lord brought me back.
I believe that until we are 'rooted & grounded' in the faith, yes we can be led astray - temporarily!!!
I would agree with that statement Iris. Thanks for the input.
I loved it! yes! Hearing HIs voice and not needing any leader but Him.. I really believe this is the most important thing for life to Hear, be confident and experienced with His person/voice. In the Wild is an excellent place for not having any thing else BUT HIS voice... it has really been confirming... love you guys!
About 10 years ago I was in a congregation where certain Seminary graduates controlled people like you talked about & although I have been accused of heresy because I did not let them tell me how to think & left there, I am closer to God now than I have ever been. I really liked this podcast. Thanks.
Great topic! Loved it! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks guys. I'm really goad you enjoyed this conversation. I agree with you. I just love this topic! I think it's really how you look at it.
Darin - Off-topic, but could you share the title and artist name of the music you play in opening and closing of the podcasts? Sorry if this has been addressed before. I'm a newbie. Love the Podcast - lot of catching up to do.
I think most discussions (about God or about cooking or politics :-) ) that aren't qualified with a "For me" or "In my opinion" instead of "we should" or "we must" are pretty icky. :-)I find my tolerance increases when I hear or read someone's comments that reflect their own thoughts and not an attempt to speak for everyone. I dont have to agree with them and if I can respond with empathy I am less likely to fly off the handle and try to fix someone because their ideas are different from my own. Does that make sense?
Aimee and Darin, I really appreciated this.
It was really interesting to hear this from a former christianized cult member perspective.
When the church I belonged to broke up and it all hit the fan it was amazing to see how many people went off and starting doing destructive behaviors because the church had kept them in the state of being spiritual infants. (Similar behavior happens when parents are overly controlling with their children)
I agree that having the freedom to explore, to compare ideas and thoughts, to work things out in free conversations helps us to mature. Mistakes will happen but so will learning growth if our real desire is to form a closer relationship with God. To permit an environment that allows some diversity same can be an act of faith in the God who loves us all.
Mike we use several songs. Three total. The once with the woman singing is Stacey Robbins and the one with the guy singing is David Vaughan. Both people can be found in the "links" section of the website.
Glad you like them. I do too.
I hold that the level a person can be led astray is in direct correlation to how much the person really knows God. Then I am led to remember a place in Revelation where it says that the time would be shortened or even the very elect would be deceived. That shows me that even those saved have the propensity to fall and be deceived. I think it comes down to how vigilant we are and how much we really know God.
I have felt for many years that the easiest place to be "led astray" is in the IC. The rules and laws to follow, even in the more benign congregations, will lead you to live a life of bondage that it can take years to shake free from. It's hard for me to take seriously any comments from someone still in that bondage suggesting (or insisting) I will be led astray by going out on my own, just me and my Shepherd. His Spirit does indeed guide you into truth and you can count on that.
Thanks for this podcast.
As someone with strange beliefs, unorthodox practices, and just plain tolerance for everyone, these types of discussions make me nervous. I have been listening to the podcast for awhile now, occasionaly reading the FB page (most of the time there is just too many comments for me to actually read them all,) and Darrin's book the Misunderstood God is somewhere here in our community (hopefully I'll get to reading it soon.) I appreciate him and the whole network. Yet if minimum standards are implented to be a part of the network, or if it all has to be lined up with Darrin or whomeever, then I don't think I would be welcome. Cause I don't even line up with myself most of the time, how can fall into place behind someone else? Glad to see that Darrin is resisting that urge.
Thanks Johnny.
If you don't think and question, then you can be led astray. And churches, cultures, families, governments, workplaces and lifestyles can all be guilty of teaching us not to think about things, because if we did we'd upset the status quo! But it is interesting that it is the church that teaches that the intellect is an enemy of faith and that the heart is not to be trusted. So we are doctrine regurgitators, spouting the partyline and boosting some teachers ego. Sorry, it's been a hard week.
If I had not opened my mind and heart to the opinions and beliefs of others, I would not be on this site today. That doesn't mean that I accept everything everyone says, but that I have the freedom to ponder it, think 'what if', accept or reject it, OR to hold it a little while, explore it, and then figure out what to do with it. People would call conversations like this 'leading astray'. It's really all a matter of opinion and personal belief. Nobody has the market on the absolute truth - just what we believe to be true.
I should clarify - I have not yet listened to the podcast, just read the comments.
Katarina,
Would LOVE to get together with you when you are here! Do you know for sure if you are coming?
I am amazed at everyone's comments here...so awesome to hear everyone's hearts, perspectives and insight. I SO love it...I want to respond but don't know where to start ;-)
God is doing heart work on me, I appreciate the talks. I have just recently had my eyes opened to my hypocrisy in my heart, and I think a lot of it stems from fear and my need to feel spiritual and wise and in control. My wife and my family have suffered from this. NOw about this talk you guys had. It is freeing to trust that God is doing the work in people's heart. I am one of those who always wonders is this or that teaching going to lead people astray. And it strikes me how simple Jesus talk was with Nicodemus about being born again