Jan 27, 2010
MIDWEEK - No Pain No Gain
Darin, Aimee Dassele and Amy Ramos talk about how suffering might actually be a gift from heaven. The three discuss how the level of freedom that a Free Believer experiences in their heart is directly associated and fueled by the level of pain and bondage they came from before they discovered grace. This is a two part challenging discussion that will make you rethink some of your former opinions on the subject of suffering. Could it be that we actually needed the bondage we came from in order to appreciate the freedom we now have?
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I think life is tough anyway, whether we are in a religious environment or not. My two daughters don't experience the inheritance of pain that I do but they constantly are exposed to the pain and dysfunctional lives of their friends. Things like inappropriate drug & alcohol use, terrible family situations, self-abusive behaviour ... the list is long. They have their own life challenges but they are compassionate, mature and beautiful people. This was a great discussion. To finish off, there are things in my life that I would dearly love to take back. Those occasions when I caused other people suffering is something that is I think quite different to experiencing suffering myself. I hope you continue the discussion.
OK, the first part of the conversation to me sounds a bit weird. Isn't the freedom different for all of us, if we where in religious bondage or not? I mean, all those religious concepts come from the world anyways and most people have some religious concept if they attend any cult or not. As I got to know my neighbor who claims to be an atheist I saw as much bondage as I see in the lives of religious christians. Maybe he is an exception, dont know...I just think why do we categorize instead of just be? Its not the freedom that is most important. Its the relationship with Father that is the center of all. Or do I get this wrong?
Sarah I agree. Bondage comes in many forms. The free believers understand the religious end of things. Freedom is freedom...regardless of which flavor of bondage you come out of.
When you are in bondage you are not free to be who you really are, whether it's religious bondage or self destructive behaviors. Either way if you don't love yourself you can't love others or God either. To be free is to choose to value yourself and in so doing you find the grace to give the same love, honor, and respect to others.
When you dishonor your own true feelings in the name of trying to win the favor of others you are dishonest and cannot experience freedom. Much of my church going routines were out of thinking I "had" to do them or I would miss out on being favored. To come out of that is to begin to love God and know that I am loved by Him in ways I had never known before. There is a real difference. Freedom is freedom.
I can relate to what is said. I had to battle through several years of bondage and several churchs always put me in that abuse and caused be such brokeness. I literally had to be put on a table striped of all and given total open heart surgery. It was like being crufiied spiritually, mentally, and emotionally, and every way. Then coming to freedom make me feel like i rose again from the grave. I love you all thanks for the podcast Dave
Wayne Jacobsen defines religion in a much broader sense, as all the (unwritten) rules in your life. Think "familiyrules" en society rules or your own rules if you tend to be perfectionistic. I did not have to get free from many church rules, not having been in it that long. But boy did God take me through a freedomride on all those other sets of rules. And I did not in any way, shape or form had a strict upbringing! Believe me, there is MUCH freedom to be gained in Christ even for those who have not been bound by years of churchrules. Religion is everywhere!
Looking forward to the continuation of this conversation.
Just a thought,(Saul) Paul at one point in his life cries out, "Wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death." What outward wretchedness was it that caught him with his pants around his ankles??? Much more to the point imo it was an inner revelation that he like all of us was in bondage to SELF! The same self that originally bought into, "You can become your own god~ha."
Perhaps grace has a great and weighty significance to a person to the extent that they out His great love, have witnessed the total and utter depravity of their flesh...as Paul did not say, there is nothing good in me, but said, "there is nothing good in my flesh."
Sarah, the freedom is important because without it, we can never have a real relationship with the Father. It's the canvass on which we know Him.
Yes I agree that freedom is important. Maybe the question is, is there any freedom without a relationship with Father. Or to say it differently, is freedom the result or the cause of a relationship with him?
Do you think your children will still have to come to their own relationship with God and gain the freedom of really making it their own, not just something they have always been taught, however right it is.