MIDWEEK - Pain the Price
Darin and Aimee talk about a letter Darin received from a friend, broken hearted over the abuse and pain of her past. The two get into a conversation about the things that pain and suffering “purchase” for us in our lives. Most of us have something from our past that we feel we still need healing from. We go over and over what happened and how it tore us apart. We pray and ponder why it happened or why it was even allowed to happen. It’s easy to make a lifestyle out of seeking healing while completely overlooking the greater thing we came away with after that terrible experience. In some cases it just might be that healing is not what’s needed, but a greater revelation of what that incident purchased. The greatest qualities in a persons heart are put there through the deepest suffering. Heart growth comes at a steep price and some people have paid that price without ever bothering to look at what it is they actually purchased.
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Darin and Aimee, that was wonderful. I lost my wife,father, and my uncle committed suicide in a 2 month span in the past several months. This was a powerful podcast. I will now try to apply this to help me become more perfect through this pain. His grace is sufficient. Darin you moved me to tears today Brother. Thank you for addressing this issue, and sharing your personal story of your own pain. Truly moving.
I totally GET this, Darin and Aimee. This is the 2nd part of My Journey Out of Oz. The Lord spoke to me during the 26plus yrs. in a spiritually abusive lifestyle and said that someday I would look back as that being one of the best times of my life. www.windblown1.wordpress-Musings From Within the Walls. The day I walked out of the abuse a calendar on the table by the door said, "Go in peace, your faith has made you whole." Of course there has been pain & confusion, but I can honestly say that the wholeness I had sought for all my life, has come to me because I suffered through this experience. Too much to say, but I have to thank you once again for speaking so deeply into my heart and life.
Whoops, I misquoted the calendar verse. It was "Your faith made you well, go in peace, healed of your disease." You would have to know my lfe to really understand what that was saying to me. I had searched all of my life for wholeness and I was healed by what I had suffered. I used to teach that wholeness comes through brokenness, but we have to have the correct understanding of what "brokenness" really is. I now see it in a much different light, but I still believe it because it has been worked into my life. Knowing Him was always my heart's cry, but I would have never chosen the way that prayer was answered. But now I can truly say, "It was one the best time of my life" because the fruit has been so amazing!
Darin and Aimee: Thank you for this podcast. Darin, thank you for sharing your vulnerability. My heart broke for you. I have always tried to remember that everything has value if you learn from it. Sometimes that is easier to remember than others.
Darin and Aimee! Thank you for your authenticity. This has been one of the most touching podcasts I've listened to in a long time. Your realness is what changes people, and why we listen.
I have a lump in my throat. You're right. What gets me is that God purchased us through his own suffering. The emphasis being on how much He loves us to consider us all worth it!
Thank you guys for your wonderful comments. I think this is probably one of the best shows we've had the privilege of doing...so glad it is touching people.
Whoa! This one for me was part 2 of last weeks discussion.. Darin and Robert's conversation how when we walk through pain and suffering, we are fellowshipping with Jesus in His pain and suffering. Powerful, Aimee and Darin.. such a powerful topic! I was reminded of something while I listened today. When a person endures a broken limb, one of the things that happens when that broken limb heals is that the actual broken areas heal doubly stronger then before they were broken. It made me think of what you were saying about the strength, the gift, the beauty, the heart that is created from brokenness IS indeed something that would not have been created without the brokenness. Such a beautiful truth that I pray more and more people grasp in their journeys to freedom. Paul even had a thorn in his side that he asked 3 times, I think, to be delivered from. But God saw fit to not take it.
Oh my goodness. Just the title of this had me in sort of "tears of communion", if that makes sense. As I began listening, I thought, oh thanks God they are sharing this..... and then what you said about me, oh my. I have been heard, my heart has been touched. Spirit and flesh are one and real. There are no words. But I am so very very thankful to say, "I hear you" as well. And yes, this took nearly a life time but I can say, "it was all worth it". I am rather speechless, but my heart is so full, and I love you so much!!!!!!
What if the healing IS when we realize that there is a purpose, a benefit, to our pain? I think that when we can share a painful experience and discuss what we learned from it, that means we have forgiven and we are healed. And I think that our wholeness comes when we can experience something painful and yet at the same time realize that God brings good from it. It's when we believe that He never forsakes us or forgets us. It's when we KNOW that He loves us no matter where we are, what circumstances we are in, or how we feel at any given time. Healing to me simply is trusting God. We give Him our burden and know that He will use it to make something beautiful. I think you touched on much of this so I hope it makes sense. Blessings...
"Free fall, weightless and terrified, on I go from living to so alive, and purified. I know, that weeping is cast for the night, but joy comes in the morning." --Stavesacre (Christian rock band) Darin...you rarely get me crying but you succeeded with this one. It speaks directly to what I am facing right now. I love the timeliness.
It has always been my experience that people who haven't suffered huge holes in their life can't really help people who do have them. Great point Aimee, these wounds are 'purchasing' for us the ability to uniquely connect with others. And yes Darin, God only knows what we're purchasing for future generations with what we've been through. I think the 'read, study and memorize' approach makes for a bunch of really well read people who have no idea how to truly relate to hurting people. The American Prosperity gospel really messes up people's thinking! Thanks so much guys, this was timely. And Darin, my friend, I wet the bed too, and have the memories to go with it. This talk really goes with how I've been praying lately. Yes the condemnation from being wounded is a heavy yoke to bear. Better to learn to embrace it and ask, what is this for. I don't know what all my pain is for yet, but I will sure be seeking greater revelation - what was purchased? This is a GREAT way to look at it.
"I wanted my children to have the best combination: American circumstances and Chinese character. How could I know these two things do not mix?" - from The Joy Luck Club (Amy Tan)
OK, now that the emotionality of that powerful message is over, I still sit here in immense pain. How do I see what is being purchased, when I am not even sure I want to stick around and find out? I still feel so hopeless.
Dave, I'm not sure any of us can see what being purchased while we are in the midst of the pain. You stick around and endure it because you must.
Dave, now is not the time to try to figure out what is being purchased by your pain. Right now, all you can see is your pain and that’s to be expected. It’s only after you’ve walked through the pain that you’ll begin to understand. I remember when I was walking through my pain that God told me he was doing a new thing in my life but I had no idea what he was talking about. It was only later that I began to understand. It was a painful experience but I am where I am today and I am who I am today because of what I went through. Dave, if you’d like to talk, I’m available to listen. I have an email address on my blog profile that you can use to contact me. If you’re interested, my blog address is: http://forgettingtheformerthings.blogspot.com/
My experience is, that when you try so hard to get healed, you actually extend your pain. And it is also that when I let pain happen I attract people. This was weird at first. But I think it is because it is my most real moment and realness is attractive. One of my most healing monents (even though there where lots of them to follow until I got where I am today) was, when I accepted all that happened in my life, the good and the bad and thanked God for all of it. Something happened in me within a single moment. I got at peace with my past and I also started to be a women instead of a tomcat. I am still not a girly chick, but I started to feel and dress differently. I think pain is a part of our identity and if we dis it, we despise it, we despise ourselves. This is why pain is looking for acceptance before it can turn into a diamond.
ooops, there happened some mixup in tha second last sentence. Sorry for that :-)
I just have to say from my own experience that some emotional pain is crushing...sometimes beyond enduring. In the past, there was a time when I had thoughts that it would be better to just get hit by a car. At that point, I knew it was time to get medical treatment. If the biochemistry in our brain gets so out of whack that we no longer want to live then I think it's time to get help...no different than going to the ER to get a broken limb fixed. And I found that counselling, medication, time did not in any way take away from what god was perhaps working in my life. (I know you guys are not saying that...)In fact, getting help seemed to draw out some real learning from those painful experiences. And now I can help others. Just last week, I was able to come alongside a new mom (in my work) who was very fragile emotionally. We were able to connect because she knew I understood and wasn't judging. It made all the difference for her in that moment.
Faith - what a great point about Christ purchasing us through his own suffering. It obviously proves that good comes of it!! I know that I would never have the compassion or understanding for people I have without it...I thank God for it....along the lines of what Lionwoman said - reading and studying are good but can also make one very cocky." Experiences on the other hand seem to not leave much room for cockiness...but rather compassion.
Aida, I agree...for some reason we can only see the value in it later. I guess the "trust" part comes in when we are driving through the fog of it and can't see two feet in front of us. Maybe that 'not being able to see in front of us' is where clinging to God and having ultimate intimacy with Him comes from as well. Dave, I am so sorry you are in so much pain. It is so taxing to live in such a trying place. One of the things God has spoken to me this week (which seems to help to a degree) is to not be afraid of my pain. I think that much of the magnification of my pain comes from trying so hard to reject it, push it away, fix it and feel shame because of it. But when I got that revelation, it somehow lessened the burden of my pain and in a weird way, made it more of a (dare I say?) 'exciting' experience?? I guess I am learning to not be a afraid of it (which in itself takes practice.)I'm starting to realize that when I am not afraid of my pain, it can speak its own revelations to me.
Sarah said, "My experience is, that when you try so hard to get healed, you actually extend your pain. And it is also that when I let pain happen I attract people. This was weird at first. But I think it is because it is my most real moment and realness is attractive." I think that is an amazing statement. When we try to resist, analyze and control our negative circumstances - we end-up becoming angry and frustrated people who are unpleasant to be around. But when we accept what has happened in our lives and move on from it - we become calm, pleasant and attractive people to be around. There is also a "realness" to us when we accept our lives as they are. When we argue with reality we get into the realm of fantasy. I think acceptance is the key to a happy and fulfilling life. But acceptance is not part of the agenda when it comes to spiritual warfare, healing and prosperity in the church.
Aimee, Paul...Yes,Yes, Yes, Thank You Thank You. That makes so much sense. I think I was/am making it worse by dwelling on it. Acceptance. (it is what it is)? Those were both VERY helpful comments. That which does not kill me, makes me stronger, and I will/am becoming a more compassionate person. Again, thank you so much.
Paul, acceptance being the key to a happy and fulfilling life is very true. Yesterday, I saw a woman I work with in a bookstore with her husband. They were sitting at a table quietly reading. He has recently been diagnosed as having cancer. She gave me an update and I told her I was so sorry that she was going through this. She simply shrugged her shoulders and said that it was the hand that they’d been dealt. She seemed at perfect peace and wasn’t asking, “Why me?” She just accepted that it is what it is. I was really amazed and I was also touched by her faith in God. Our conversation didn’t totally center on their situation and we even talked about school and computers. She and her husband are Jewish yet their faith seems stronger than mine would be in a similar situation. She's accepted the situation instead of fighting it and I ended the conversation lifted up rather than feeling sad or depressed.
I cant think of a better gift to give or receive than looking someone in the eye and saying "I know how you feel" and really *knowing*. I had no idea that painful experiences in my life would be of any value until one day, I saw someone who was facing their own challenges and I could relate to them in a real way. It was a moment of freedom for both of us. Wonderful podcast.
I wish I was at the place where I could see the good in the emotional and spiritual abuse my family put me through... but I can't yet. That is where I am stuck. I can't see how it has made me a help to anyone... I'll now start trying to not dwell on it, everything you said made sense but I can't seem to get to that place of acceptance while I am feeling so much pain. I do want to thank you Darrin for the article you wrote titled "Spiritual Warfare" it gave me such relief from condemnation that was heaped upon me by family members.
Bridget I don't think any of us can identify what our suffering has purchased for us while we're still in the midst of suffering. Hang in there:) Glad you liked the Spiritual Warfare post. Thanks.
Darin, what do you mean by the "tough times are going to come"? I don't remeber the exact wording, but you suggested something like this. I don't feel any "great tribulation" or "end-time" fear mongering from that. I'm just curious about what you meant.
I'm sure I was speaking about America.
People from other countries put Americans down? - now we would never do that, especially us Aussies even though we live in the best country in the world (though we might make the occasional joke that Americans talk funny, can't spell and are a little crazy . . . just kidding!)Seriously, this topic brought me to tears and I haven't cried for a long time because I have been all cried out. Don't know if you know what I mean by that. The problem is the heartaches will not stop for me to get my breath and see what has been bought and I am 55. Just a lump of holey cheese here (not holy, notice!!!).
I know I'm coming into this conversation late and I haven't even had a chance to read everyone else's responses, but I'm curious about something. This podcast talked a lot about how religion often painted the picture that when we experience pain and suffering, there must be something "wrong", i.e. we have unconfessed sin, we're not doing something we should be, etc. What I'm wondering is if anyone ever got the message in religion that if you're NOT experiencing some kind of suffering that there is something "wrong", i.e. if Satan isn't concerned with you, you must not be a threat. I heard this message a lot towards the end of my run with the religious environment and I found this just as damaging as the message that we must do something to earn our way "out of" suffering, as though we're not effective as Christians if we're not experiencing some kind of pain and suffering in our lives at any given moment...what do you think?