Apr 10, 2010
Moving On
Darin, Aimee Dassele and Amy Ramos talk about Darin’s latest Blog post, “Ready, Set, LIVE” and how people have responded to it. This is a discussion about how there is a point in each of our walks where we must move on from the IC conversation to actually living life. The revelation of grace and love is something that brings us all back to the starting line of life. Many people confuse that starting line with the finish line and they mistakenly believe that their freedom from the IC is what it’s all about. Living life in our new freedom and moving on from the same conversation about our past bondage is a necessary part of life in the wild.
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I really appreciate you guys talking about "moving on" down the road away from dwelling on the old and coming into the new. I still get nervous at all the talk about "bring free" that is disconnected from a revelation of Christ. I am so aching to hear more talk about Jesus being the freedom that leads us out of the old and into the new. Also, a true revelation of Christ will bring a new revelation of the church. I'm not hearing that. I only hear a disdain for the institutional church. There just seems to be so much missing in all this talk about freedom.
I do think that the FB group can be a good thing. But your admins post sarcastic hateful things that do not help people be "honest" in a way that is Christ-honoring. I also don't think that a person should "be true to their heart" no matter what. If I was true to my heart on most days... folks would never see Jesus. Maybe a person still needs to talk about it, but they should be able to talk about it with at least some believers that are beyond the bitterness and can help walk with them through the first stage of realizing there is freedom in Christ. I just think there is a lack of vision of the Lord and his Bride set free. FBN could be more than stage where people vent and leave angry on another level. Too much talk about freedom disconnected from Christ leads to more bondage.
I"m not sure where you're getting the "disconnected from Christ" idea David. This entire ministry is in existence because of the revelation of Christ that we've gotten. If you think the FBN is about leaving church, you haven't read through the articles or listen to the many podcasts on this site where we constantly explain the opposite. The revelation of christ is who God really is and we talk openly about it on almost every podcast.
David, I understand your concern but maybe you’re looking in the wrong place to get an accurate picture of what the FBN is really about. Darin’s got a great forum on this website where we try to discuss topics that encourage us on our journeys. Although the vast majority of our members no longer attend an institutional church, we’re all pretty much past the “I hate the IC stage.” I’m a moderator on that forum and I still attend and we also have another moderator who is thinking of returning. Check us out. You might enjoy being involved.
Darin, thanks for another great podcast. You guys struck such a balance with "moving on". I really like the attitude of being done with the conversation but being willing to listen and converse with those that are still detoxing.
This podcast was perfect timing for me. I have spent the past couple of years mulling over and hashing out my freedom and cleaning the yuck off of me from the IC crap and sick relationships. Well, we are leaving Arizona at the end of this month and are moving on to a brand new life. Me with a restored faith and a brand new family. It is so exciting this adventure in freedom. And I agree. People who stay in this mode for too long end up festering and rotting. As my wife Amber puts it, we just need to close this chapter and be ready for whatever is next. Thanks for the encouragement (and the traffic report)
Darin, Amiee, and Amy, you guys rock ;)
I feel so refreshed to have listened to this conversation. It's been a constant tug on my heart lately to move on and let the wrongs and hurts and all the negative crap die. I've spent enough time dwelling there, and although I've learned to be realistic and honest, it's time to pick up my pack and begin the journey of knowing the Father.
Thanks guys!!
@David D. Flowers: I recently joined the FBN FB page and also noticed the (oftentimes) sarcastic postings by the Admins. Personally, I'm not there anymore (angry at the IC), and would like to see/hear more encouraging words, etc. but I also realize that we are all at different stages in this journey (of knowing His love, freedom, etc). :)
Just a point of clarification - there is a forum on this website, which Aida is referring to, and the Facebook FBN group. The two a completely different. Also, I think at times that people get a totally wrong idea about FBN. Darin is not someone who controls what people do. He is a resource to call upon if needed but the forum on this site is fairly autonomous. I know it is hard to understand if your experience is related to a typical top-down structure but the reality is that people are welcome to express who they really are. It can get raw at times but that is how growth can occur. David, just for your info I contribute to the forum here but choose not to be a member of the FB FBN. For me it is simply a personal choice.
Hey, Darin. I just had a good conversation on the phone with Mike M. I was going to edit/clarify a few things in my previous comment. I largely mean only to speak to the FBN fb group admin posts. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear about that. A large dose of steady sarcasm can be understood as "hateful" after a while. That's all I meant. As Judy remarked, everyone is at a different place and I embrace that. I only hope that other voices will be heard. It's real easy for those who have been through the early stages of leaving religion to be heard as the "old voices." Instead of finding the balance... we see two sides: honest bitter "free" people vs. the religious people.
Darin, I appreciate your efforts and I only hope that some of what I have said might be considered for the future. Primarily, that a greater emphasis and exposition on seeing Christ and his Bride set free will be shared for others, not just to leave religion or to heal, but to move on in Christ in all things. What does that look like in practice? Thank you for your work. Maybe we can connect on more of a personal level in the future. Blessings.
I haven’t listened to the podcast yet so I have no idea what was said but I do want to thank Ian for doing such a great job in explaining how the forum operates. We're not highly publicized but we’ve been here since the website was started and we’re still here and growing. The members who participate regularly are a great bunch of folks who are moving away from the bondage of IC bashing into the freedom of life in Christ. They’re a great group to hang around with.
"The bondage of IC bashing".... Love that!
"The bondage of IC bashing".... Love that!
Thank you.
Great Talk!!.Religion hurts , religion kills religion scars and maims.Its not overkill to bash religion.Jesus was sick to death of religion in His day calling the religious leaders a pack of Snakes and dead men and didnt even need a psychiatrist afterwards? .lol.Theres a time not to be too sensitive and realize you can still let christ live in you simultaneously.Yes I need to move on and not think on it too long.I agree the sarcasm can get old -but I just remember the incredable joy of freedom in Jesus for me .Thanks Darin Aimee and Amy again for wise insight.God richly bless you guys in your grace walks as we are all at differnt levels growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Im not going to should on any one and hope no one shoulds on me.love :)DavidML
Very much loved this discussion.. thanks so much guys... Excellent!
One freedom in being a listener here.
I find this a place to air what we have keeped silent within.
And to listen to others not giving an answer back but aknowleged its been heard.
I think that whatever gift God gives us in building what He has degreed usually gets royally screwed up when we try and do it without Him. I think the gifts He gives and the means of Grace He has degreed are still very important and maybe if we let Him do His work in the way He decides we'd be better off. His laws are written on the hearts of people, most of us know we are to love others and be better people - what isn't written on people's hearts and comes from outside of our selves is The Gospel. Love is the summary of the law - it isn't the Gospel. The law will condemn us outside the Gospel. Inside the Gospel the law will guide us.
Ok - to tell the truth I didn't actually think those thoughts above by myself, they came from outside of myself, from a pastor who has written a book called The Gospel Driven Life. I had to fess up. The reason I wrote what I did was because it made sense to me and I thought it could be a place to move the conversation on toward.
I hit enter before I was finished. It made sense to me in regard to what Darin says in the last chapter of his book - the Holy Spirit who is God, who is Love dwells in us and will use God's Law to guide us into loving God and others. The law is still a gift to us from God but most of us use it to condemn people who already know in themselves they are condemned. Telling the Gospel is the good news we need to hear always. I know in my experience the only thing that pulled me out of the despair of the corruption I saw in the church was hearing the Gospel again - thanks gsskid and MH and most of all thanks be to Jesus who heard my cry in the wild. I haven't decided yet if sheep are meant to be self feeders, Jesus used gsskid to get through to me - he was outside of me - his words got in
Do you think that the IC has its place as a meeting place for those who are goats (or even wanna be sheep) to get a taste of Jesus and then those sheep who have graduated move beyond the four walls to world and spread the love? And now I understand why you seemed so offended by my letter, Darin. My letter sounded like a replacement mentality rather than the absorption of the truth. Replacement keeps you in bondage under a "leadership" where absorption places you right at the side of Jesus. At least that is what I am trying to grasp, I think. Just thinking out loud!
Somehow I had to move on because I could not stant the discussions anymore. But somehow I also feel a bit like I dont really have this relationship with God either. Dont know...I dont even really have a desire to have that. So I am thinking at times, if there is something wrong with me or if this is just a time I need to really move on...
I almost wonder sometimes if we burn out of the whole "relationship with God" idea because it's been shoved in our face for so long and it's just so abstract and difficult to know for sure what it is. Sometimes it's just easier to walk away and let things be for awhile until your head clears.
Very good and much needed discussion everyone. I think camping in one particular place no matter what it is, should always be temporary. Lots of food for thought.
According to the beginning of Romans everyone already has a relationship with God - but only as creator and judge - for what is known about him can be clearly seen...no-one is without excuse. What people don't have is the knowledge that they are forgiven and given shelter from the coming end of this creation. And they are forgiven because of Jesus. This aspect of relationship - Father & Son - is what seems to be missing. Declared righteous and adopted.
Darin, , Yes this might be it. And I dont really see a difference if I think there is this relationship or not. Somehow I feel like being an atheist. I do see a difference thou. There are people who dont know how to forgive others or who have lot of prejudgements etc. and misconceptions about how life should be. For example that a girlfriend would be the thing that makes them happy...but there are people who think more like me and are no christians. Maybe I feel that way because this "relationship-with-God" became a substitute for having real friends, because I was not having friends and could not find them. Ant then there where those who said that you needed to get the relationship with god right first and then your other relationships would come as well...
Debbie, you remind me about me being still in the Institution and having the right bible quote ready for every question and situation, but not really realizing that it was only me who could relate to that...or at least I thought I could...This is a nice quote with scary aspects, but very abstract...and used that way to me it serves to divide in us and them.
Sarah I think I get where you are coming from. I don't have the level of faith I wish I did, even after all this time 'outside the religious box.' As Darin said though I think we have been taught to worry about it and analyze it so much, because we're taught that it's all up to us. All I can do is continue to seek more heart level understanding and pray for it. You never know when you are finally going to see results to something God has been at work on for years... hope this helps :-)
I have found myself in a place of greater freedom in the Christ...by not reading the bible every day...by not delving deeper into the meanings of words in the bible...by not searching constantly for God's direction in everything...but by knowing that I am loved by my Creator/Father/ and by The Christ...and by deciding to make my spiritual focus LOVE. I have decided to stop looking for deep meaning and wisdom and to start living love. In learning to love is an endless depth of wisdom, life, peace, freedom, etc...
Sarah - you are right. I forget sometimes that we all talk this side of the cross not the other one we come from. I have been thinking about how love is even harder than ten commandments - why is having two harder than ten? Because I try and love in my own wisdom. Every time I fail to love I still need the cross except now it doesn't condemn me, it continues to save me. I am not at the level yet where I walk constantly in The Spirit and know how to love believers and unbelievers instinctively without offense. I am still a brat who chooses her own idea's over the Spirits, I still react to pain in my flesh rather than respond with love. I fail daily and I am still trying to reword the scriptures so I don't sound so institutional and offensive to others.
How come Sarah's name is showing up above to what was my response to her?
You must have accidently put Sarah's name in rather then your own when you commented.
I think I must of, sorry Sarah.
I've been listening to the show since the start of the year and each episode has been like a dose of medicine. Without this "medicine" I feel I would have still been in Christian dreamland, holding onto unreal expectations that will never come to fruition.
I've been an active Christian blogger and networker for over a year now. I would spend hours a day sometimes on Facebook reading all of the comments of Christians posting-up Bible verses and "grace messages".
But since the start of the year I've been slowing down with it all. I went from focusing in on blogs and comments, with a laser-like focus, to just tuning-out of it. I tend to shy away from Christian blocks of text now - I can't stand it anymore. I just want to know what's real and what are just "fluffy bunny" clichés.
...continuation from previous comment (sorry, I didn't get to the punchline).
I just feel that this podcast episode echoed what I was feeling. The Gospel was never meant to be something that you continually study, analyse and talk about - it is something that you come to know and believe - a way of life.
Sure, we are to study and discuss the grace message, but there comes a point in your life when the message becomes a part of you and you live from that place. Even the grace message becomes a study or even a "work" to some people. I was told to keep on studying the grace message and it will change your attitudes, beliefs and life - but I'm not really sure it has. Some even believe that faith in righteousness is a key to prosperity and everything else the church promises.
Paul - maybe the root of it is in what you said in your last sentence. The problem is always going to be in 'what we think' and maybe the answer is in 'What He Has done.' I am finding that all the talk about what is wrong with the church is getting old and I want to move on to a different conversation. I am leaning toward the story that never gets old. 'What He Has Done.' In that story all the false teaching that is floating around becomes clear and I can bury those teachings. One that is getting a burial now is 'it's all about my personal relationship with Jesus.'
i am loving DavidML. Kisses man!and why do people come to someone else's website, to tell and suggest to THEM how THEY should share their message, and what their message SHOULD be. My word to them is GET YOUR OWN WEBSITE DO YOUR OWN PODCAST!!!Stop trying to fill up wells other people have dug. Rant out.