Jan 10, 2012
Overcoming Your Greatast Enemy
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Wow...this is amazing. I have entertained scenarios my whole life...and the way you describe how they build in intensity is right spot on. I have done the same thing in the past with suicide fantasies, fear about medical issues, and ESPECIALLY with my relationship with my wife while we were dating/courting. Whenever she would for some reason not call or answer when I called, the disaster scenarios would start...she's seeing someone else, she's been killed in a car crash, etc etc. I found myself actually picturing her funeral and actually felt the grief of seeing her in a casket...after a few hours of this I felt that same frazzled feeling Darren describes. When my fiancee finally reunited with me she thankfully knew that look (because she has the same tendency) and calmed me down. Every time this has happened God has spoken to me in that still small voice telling me the exact thing Darren said...I am making the choice to entertain these thoughts. And...even if they ARE from Satan...
...WE still are making the choice to yield to the thoughts. Paul tells us to take every thought captive; James tells us to resist the devil and he will flee. Paul also tells us to keep our eyes on Jesus and to think on that which is good and wholesome. Sounds trite, but I've found when I let the Spirit guide me in that direction it's like tranquilizer for my soul. It's so true that we let those fear thoughts come in because they entertain us...just like pornographic or violent ones do. It's a constant battle which will go on until we are with Him eternally.
And I really have to say a big AMEN to Amy's point that it's because we feel WE DON'T DESERVE GOOD THINGS FROM GOD...He just wants to punish us and torture us and let us ALMOST have happiness...then snatch it from us. Darren is right when he says that it's US that's doing the punishing, not God (ever see the movie "The Mission"?).
I may have gotten you wrong here. But what I understood is that it´s the abused womens fault and her choice. And that is painful to the bone.
Having grown up with an abusive father and mother yes, it is my choice that I hurt myself. Physically and emotionally. And yes, I don´t believe that I´m worthy and the physical pain takes away a bit of the emotional pain. That is my choice. And I´m dealing with that.
But I think it´s important to say that the thoughts of not being worthy or deserving that, is not my choice but it was my parents. It was NOT my fault and I did NOT deserve that and that there was nothing I could have done to prevent what happened. (Those are the words of my therapist and that is the first step to differentiate between the abusers words/choices and my own). I´ll have to live with the scares the rest of my life, yes. I have to learn to deal with that a better way, yes. That is my choice.
And it´s very hard.
This conversation is the best ever for me. This has been me forever. The thing about not feeling like I deserve to be free of the thoughts, really broke through to me. I just know in my heart, that my thought patterns will be different from this point on. It was like the light came on! I can choose to change!
You are sharing alot of wisdom here Elisabeth. I've been thinking about how the institutional church has done further damage in this area in that we get the false impression that overcoming abuse and rising above in Christ is easy if ya just do the right things...
What I hear these guys saying is just what you said- it only is our fault when we choose to entertain/believe these lies, and the simplicity is in the "just say no" part.
You're right- it is VERY hard! We are all wounded as kids and have ruts in our minds as a result, yet persistent childhood abuses (esp from authority figures) cause deeper ditches...
Ha- my own words here make me realize I need to celebrate the leveling of the holes- even if it is only little by little.
Coming out of an abusive relationship that lasted more than 24 years, as a Christian, the difficulty was what I was being taught about submission to authority, and maybe it was not intended the way I heard it, but with my home situation I was always, asking God to help me be more humble, more submissive so my ex would see God's love and know Him. Sounds like a good thought but the cycle left me not loving the one person I buried, me. This cycle was not just a choice one day to get out of it, that was the first step. Recognizing it, accepting it and learning to forgive myself. Yes, making choices to surround myself with healthy individuals, go to counselling, (and for me outside any faith based counselling) to learn about me. It can be done, I have a wonderful healthy relationship now, but I just need to say for me, it was not just one day a choice, but as Darrin relayed in the relationship in his younger years, each day I needed to make an effort to change my thought pattern.
I think this was a great discussion, and I don't think in anyway did you guys intend to blame a woman for the abuses.I have heard far too many podcasts of your hearts for individuals, especially women. Although I hear your heart Elisabeth, when you are told for so long its your fault and you finally start seeing it wasn't, it seems we have a defense mechanism that rises up to protect us from that lie again. I get it, cause I do it to. But there again is the choice to hear the heart of the message or just the words of it. IMO anyways. Thanks again for sharing.
Elisabeth, your experiences, your pain and making sense of it all is valid. I think however, that this podcast was addressing people's' tendencies to indulge pain and scenarios that haven't happened or aren't worthy of our thoughts. Naturally, repetitious thoughts occur over pain that has been experienced in an attempt to make sense of it/deal with it but this too can be either productive or unproductive. If the negative thoughts are continuing in your mind about your actual life experiences, you may like to seek therapy for trauma. The consequences of trauma are quite different from 'choosing to obsess' as trauma can effect your chemical/hormone levels. I may not be right, just putting it out there for your consideration.
Elisabeth, not only did I not say that, but I even went as far as to say that I DON'T feel the woman deserves this. If you'd like to hear it again just go to 33.30 (that's thirty-three minutes and thirty seconds into the podcast show)
We weren't discussing the abuse of children in this podcast but I think any thinking person would agree that it's not the child's fault in any child abuse case. There's a difference between things that are in our control and things that aren't. As children we have very little say over what happens to us. I was abused as a child so I know what I"m talking about here. It was my fathers fault 100%.
When I became an adult however I made the decision that NO ONE would ever abuse me and get away with it again. I chose to leave that lifestyle for good. Unfortunately many people pick up where their parents left off and continue to abuse themselves or live with people who abuse them long after leaving home. Sad.
I am sorry that my comment came over as accusing anybody of something. All I wanted, I guess, was an affirmation that I misunderstood. Otherwise there would have been this constant nagging that, yes, what they said is that everything was my fault. I am very sorry for that and all I can do is apologize. My brain doesn´t always work right. :-) (I don´t know how to make a week smile smiley)
I really envy you Darin, for your strength of making that decision. I´ve tried that for years and usually it works for a while but then I fall back in old habits. And sometimes I´m just to tired to make that choice over and over again.
Yes, I´m getting help Christie.
So, I apologize again. I really didn´t want to come over as aggressive or what ever.
You were not at all agressive Elizabeth, and I bet you never are! You did not deserve a repremanded either. It is interesting that the people here and on the forum who have hurt with this are people who have been abused and one tendency is to react rather than help. The topic was not childhood abuse but it is OFTEN connected to those bad "choices" discussed. MAYBE this is still a more tender area for Darin than he lets on and it affects him other ways he has not yet made a "choice" about. Some hurt themselves out of a determination NEVER to hurt OTHERS like their abusers did. Some REALLY CANNOT make healthy relationships and ANYTHING is better than pain of loneliness, even painful, destructive "relationships". Some are very empathetic and caring, & strong like Darin in most cases and can choose and make healthy decisions, but very defensive when they feel threatened or something... I do not presume to know his problem here but it is obvious he has one when he cannot "hear" these people
Elisabeth where did you get the idea that you came across as accusing someone? You asked a very good question. Rather than just assume you heard what you thought you heard, you asked for clarification to make sure (I wish more people would do that). You didn't accuse us of anything. You didn't assume anything and you made no judgments. There was nothing offensive about your post whatsoever.
It's comments like the one just above this post that cause me to throw my hands up in the air, shake my head and roll my eyes all at the same time. I see more and more why authors end up secluding themselves from everyone and make it impossible for people to get a hold of them. It's amazing that no matter what you SAY or DON'T SAY, there's always someone there to analyze your every move and fill in the blanks with assumptions.
Just remember Elisabeth, that was then, but this is now. You had no say over what happened to you back then. Today you have a say. You are worthy and you deserve the best
"Elisabeth, not only did I not say that, but I even went as far as to say that I DON'T feel the woman deserves this. If you'd like to hear it again just go to 33.30 . . ." Sounded like you felt she was "accusing" you of something you did not say to me and to her."It's amazing that no matter what you SAY or DON'T SAY, there's always someone there to analyze your every move and fill in the blanks with assumptions." And Darin is as good at THAT as those who so get under HIS skin. He did not notice any "maybe" or "I do not presume to know"; I simply commented on behaviour.He can have hundreds of positive comments and kind remarks and it is never enough for him. "It's comments like the one just above this post that cause me to throw my hands up in the air, shake my head and roll my eyes all at the same time." Somebody dares to have an "experience" or thought about something different or perhaps adding to (how could that be possible?) his vast and exhaustive knowledge and he pounces on them.
I commented also on reasons WHY people might not take up this CHOICE they have. I in my stupidity have taken Darin to mean he thinks people do not take up this choice because they do not WANT to be responsible for their lives (because he asserted it, but of course taking what he actually asserted is presumptious and overanalysing or it was just a chat or any other excuse for avoidance of RESPONSIBILITY for what he SAYS that Darin likes to employ at the time.)I believe there are OFTEN other reasons; in fact I know there are OFTEN other reasons. To deny this HURTS PEOPLE. Simple FACT. If you do not let people explore these reasons but go on doggedly about "you have a choice" when that piece of information is long gone as the issue is a BIT like a doctor telling a very ill person they need to choose to take their medicine over and over without discovering that they are not taking it because they in fact cannot swallow and need an injection! (hands up, head-shaking and eyerolling again).
If you were not reprimanding Elizabeth your first comment to her would have had a MUCH kinder tone, like the second one! What you do NOT say is OFTEN significant (contrary to what you believe). There was no expression of support, concern for her hurts, understanding that just maybe you are not perfect and somehow your communication did not COME ACROSS as intended (you expect us to communicate with YOU in such a way that WE are responsible if YOU take offense, but YOU are NEVER responsible if WE take offense from YOUR communication.) If you were more understanding of our communication limitations, maybe we would be a bit more understanding of yours! (Unless of course you find that insulting and DO think your communication IS PERFECT always. I know mine is not, because when communicating the onus is on you to appreciate your audience's perspective and how you come across to them, and I am real bad at that! Socially dysfunctional abused child!)
I dare you, Darin, to ask people to let you know if you scare them at all. (I might be unique, but you scare me. I suppose it does not really matter whether or not you scare anybody else). It has actually taken a lot of courage (and a CHOICE not to allow the fear I CANNOT stop feeling to control me) to stand up to you. You can be very kind and encouraging and loving but cross you and your words can be like knives . . . Not everybody who disagrees with you or misunderstands you is an enemy or wants to fight you, so you do not have to come out with your fists up!
He's never scared me. It has never occurred to me that I would be afraid of Darin. He's the one person who has loved me through all my craziness.
Great podcast by the way.
Wanda, have you ever disagreed with him about anything he said? I am VERY glad for you he has loved you through everything. He is a very loving kind person, probably one of the most on this earth, and I think that is why getting attacked by him is scary because you then know you have a particularly strange unusual unlovable kind of craziness!!!!!
I have disagreed with a lot of what Darin says and I tell him to his face all the time. My husband and best friend have chimed in on conversations with Darin disagreeing with his opinion on certain matters and he never got angry or mean with either of them at all. I see people express a difference of opinion all the time and Darin has always been graceful and accepting.
If you don't mind my saying I have noticed that the times where Darin becomes confrontational with people is just after someone makes a mean and cutting comment to him. People usually drop remarks like this just after disagreeing with something Darin said. They'll disagree with him and then follow up by slapping him in the face with a character cutting statement.
From the perspective of people just reading through the comment section it's easy to think that Darin is responding angrily because someone disagreed with him. Not so. Just an opinion from me.
Wanda, I guess you are just the lucky duck then. Are you on the forum? Go there and check out the ONLY person I know who has EVER had Darin come after them on the forum, and people there have been able to say ANYTHING they need to get off their chest; I was even TOLD to go there to sort out any difficulties I might be having by talking to others. (See the podcast discussion section). I was treated as if I was a total idiot for saying what I said and just not worth listening to. My angst here has not come out of thin air! There IS a history. I have supported Darin often verbally (even financially once when I heard he was struggling though it was hard for me). Yet he has got angry with me often for very little; I can only see it as being because I disagree. But maybe it IS just me, after all. Enjoy your happy little club. As always, I am outside looking in.
Sorry Wanda. I got a bit angry myself there I will be honest (As if you did not notice!) Well, more hurt than angry. The whole unfortunate thing has gone from the forum and we will just start over, AGAIN, and hope for better things.