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Oct 26, 2011

Remembering Jacob Heynen

JacobDarin and Aimee remember Jacob Heynen and what a wonderful loving heart he had. Jacob affected so many people in such a profound way. Free Believers around the world are mourning his loss. Both Darin and Aimee talk openly about their feelings and encourage others to do the same.

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    I have struggled with depression all my life. I tried to take my life as a teen. Thankfully it did not work. I immediately had a child (at age 16) thinking this would give me a reason to live. Then in my early 30s I again became obsessed with taking my life (I'll spare you the details why). I saw a TV show that interviewed Liza Minnelli talking about her mom's suicide (Judy Garland) and how she suffered in her adult life over her mom taking her life. Thankfully that stuck hard in my head and that one thought of not wanting my kids to suffer that kept me from taking my life many times. I'm not saying I did a better job than Jacob. He's too young to have seen that interview. And had I not seen that I'm not sure that I'd have been aware of the burden that leaves on the children. Depression is tricky. I hate it so much. I wish there was a way to be rid of it. My heart breaks for Jacob's family and friends and for Jacob's suffering as well. Depression can indeed be hell on earth.

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    Joshquinn Andrews

    I never heard of this person but it's sad how things turn out for him and his family/friends/the people who looked up to him. Also that's very deep. People for the most part having to go through this as a price for loving others. That's something I never fully realize. Well all i would say is that with the people who are thinking that they can reach the truth by taking in the grace message as well as becoming Christian and following doctrines are mistaken. This is because the reality is that we would never reach the exact truth. We would only get close it. Instead of people trying so hard to reach the truth they should enjoy the journey of getting close to that truth and bettering their souls (as in character) for doing so. Just thought to share this since you two kept mentioning about people trying to get to the truth.

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    There is a beautiful sketch of Jacob done by David Hayward at naked

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    Depression is a life long companion. The problem with "religion" as I have understood it is that you were always told that it will leave if you just trust in God and if it doesn't it's your problem not Gods. In my case it hasn't "left". Managed maybe with counseling (not religious) and medication. The voice of depression takes on many emotions. At the end of the day sometimes it's the "voices" that you want to be silent and they out weigh the voice of reason. There are so many factors that make up those "voices" that it isn't even fair to wonder.For me when it has reared its ugly head the inside of me felt as if the world would be better off without me. It would be easier to deal with my absence than my "presence." This is where the internal battle lies and the degree to which a person suffers depression is left for us to just "speculate" on when there really isn't any clear answer to that much despair. We who are left to deal with anger and grief have one place to go,love one another.

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    Wow, so many thoughts and I don't know where to begin. First of all, for those of you that knew Jacob, I'm very sorry for your loss. I did not know Jacob, but it's obvious he made a huge impact on countless lives. I've probably had depression for longer than I know. I officially started on meds around 2000, but I'm certain I was suffering from it many years prior to 2000. Almost 2 years ago is when I stumbled upon this message of love and grace, via Wayne J's book, So You Don't Want to Go to Church Anymore. That began a period in my life of soaking in, deep down into my being (soul, spirit, etc) that God does truly love me, a love that cannot be described by words. While on meds, before this revelation of God's love, I still had horrible thoughts about myself, including suicide. I still take my meds (Sertraline HCL 100mg), but I can honestly say that the those thoughts are gone. I have not thought about suicide ONCE since early 2010, and I now think positive about myself...

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    ...and no more thoughts of being stupid, useless, etc. etc. My suicidal thoughts (and there were 2 attempts) came from just wanting out of life. I was tired, depressed, had no hope, didn't feel appreciated or loved, etc. I was just simply tired of living and couldn't see the point in continuing on. Now that I know his love, that has taken the focus off of me, me, me, and now I want others to know that they are loved as well. There's a comfort and peace of knowing that my Creator loves me, deeply and profoundly. When I was in the I.C., I tried every formula possible that I knew of to get freed from the depression, the thoughts, and the suicidal thoughts. Nothing worked. I looked under every rug and behind every door trying to find a demon, or a family member that had cursed me, or all the other "formula's". Once people like Darin, Wayne, Jim Palmer, W. Paul Young, etc started telling me through their literature I was loved, it changed everything.

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    But let me add, right now life is very good. I love others, I know I'm loved, I have a great job, and surrounded by great people who I love and they love me. Should all that change, my hope is that I remain the same as I am right now, even through bad things that happen, which they likely will. I say this because it's likely that Jacob had similar circumstances. Perhaps when/if it all comes crashing down on me, I'll begin to have those same thoughts. At this point I don't think I would, and I certainly don't think I'd take my own life anymore, but I'm not going through "hell" right now either. My point is to say that at any moment, any of us can have our worlds come crashing down, and perhaps any one of us could make the same decision Jacob made. I hope not, but it is a reality. I once had a very good pastor tell me to "Settle everything at the extreme". Settling things at the extreme allows you to be prepared for when it all does come crashing down. I think I'm prepared.

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    I still have my moments when I crash. Not like I used to. Crashing now results in an entire weekend curled up in my bed sleeping. No negative thoughts, no suicidal thoughts. Just a break from the world. When I hear from God during these times, it's usually that it's ok to take a break from the world and to not beat myself up about it. It is who I am, and He still loves me as is. I'm blessed to have people around me that know it is what it is. I crash, that's me. But I get back up again, make a run at it, and at some point I have to have that long break again. Recently an acquantance took his own life. He was heavily involved in the I.C. thing for many years. This one surprised me only because I didn't see it coming, but afterwards it was no surprise at all because I think this person was trying to live by the formula's and it never worked, or he never reached the "status level" in the I.C. that so many try to unsuccessfully attain. Don't know that he ever knew God's love.

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    When you tithe, pray, read scripture, go to church every Wed and Sat, and everything else, all the woe's of life are supposed to go away. I can tell you that for about 2 years before I heard this message God was telling me to not tithe. Through that period stuff still broke, bills still came in, and things still went wrong. Once I quite tithing, the proverbial "floodgate" finally opened and things actually got better. That fixed me of the obligation of tithing. For me, the fix was love. Loving others and being loved. To me, Love never fails, and God is love. Love is not something to be earned, it is to be spent. I have nothing to win, nothing to lose, nothing to defend, and nothing to prove. Thanks again Aimee and Darin. "Foil Boy"...classic :)

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    Doug in Denver

    Kimball, thanks for what you opened your heart with. Good stuff man. It is this kind if honesty that helps people. Thanks

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    A very honest and thoughtful podcast. Set me thinking about the brother I'm pretty sure I lost to suicide 37yr ogo (inexplicable car accident) and how I never really processed it properly (church people in denial - and we went to run kids rally that night right on schedule because the work must go on of course!and all the stuff that was said that was just not real ...)and the many times I have considered following suit but not done so. Depression is a bummer. What if the Father welcomed Jacob with open arms and no "Look what your choice has done to people" at all; with no recriminations or regrets to speak of. I don't expect Him to greet me pointing out every bad choice I have made (if He does - I am sunk!) After all, He himself allows children's parents to die when they are young doesn't He? ... sometimes leaves them in desperate situations as a result ... my dad died (illness) when I was 8 and my mother was not kind at all. Yeah it's His right as God. We are working that one out.

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    Am I starting to imagine things or are there some posts missing? A thought that came to me with the last comment Darin made, about if people could see at their funeral how much they are valued (or something like that). What if we would tell people how much they are valued as long as they are still alive? How much their smile means to us or to just be with them?

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    I think the hardest thing about depression are the feelings of being abandoned by God in the midst of it. I can't find God anywhere when I'm in the throngs of depression and just telling myself He's there (trying to "believe") just doesn't work. I find myself questioning why I have to struggle the way I do, and when I get no answer, it leaves me feeling again like there's something wrong with my faith, that I'm again believing in something that doesn't work. But there's nothing left to grab onto if God doesn't seem to be there. That's what puts me in the bottomless pit that seems impossible to get out of. And, the meds are expensive!!

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    Marcia Zumbahlen

    Healthy children will not fear life if their elders have integrity enough not to fear death.  ~Erik H. Erikson

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    I didn't know Jacob but he sounds like a loving and wonderful person. I listened to the podcast with interest and appreciate the encouragement you give to not be afraid of feelings, and to talk openly about the subject of suicide. And I appreciated everyone's input. All healthy, in my opinion. I've been processing it all these last couple days and thinking about depression and suicidal tendencies both of which I am personally familiar with. There is a word that I learned which I have found helpful - "overdetermined" which means that in the case of something like suicide there are many contributing factors, many influences, occurences etc that come together affecting one's decision to give up. The reason I like this word is because living in the "Christian" world I found that people often want concrete/black & white answers and many times come only from a spiritual focus to endeavor to understand complicated things like depression and suicide. And by complicated I mean that we tend

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    to leave out our entire being which includes our physical bodies. I come from generations of mental illness on one side of my family. Some would see this as strictly a spiritual issue, demonic attachment etc. I've been fairly lucky in that dealing with depression off and on beginning in my teen years has been my main struggle. The closest I came to committing suicide I was 29 years old with a husband involved in ministry and two small children. I truly believed that the most loving and kind thing I could do for these loved ones was erase myself from the picture. Was religion and spiritual thoughts mixed inside those thoughts? Yes. Fortunately, I let a trusted friend know the thoughts I was being tormented with, who in turn encouraged that I get a good woman's physical. Turns out I had a female condition that required an immediate hysterectomy one of the side effects being that I had triple the amount of estrogen in my body as normal and my doctor kindly assured me was

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    making me "crazy". Put on suicide watch until I had my surgery, within 48 hours after, as the estrogen cleared my bloodstream, I began to think clearly again and reason from a calmer, healthier place. My point is that often times there truly is a physical brain chemical piece to the picture which we may not be aware of. Severe depression is incredibly painful and definitely affects ones normal thought processes - no matter how much we believe in God's love and how much we love others. I believe that when God views suicide He/She has nothing but mercy and my own experiences have humbled me to realize that in my desire to know "why", it would be far better for me to error on the side of mercy then to jump to the wrong conclusions about the victims reasons and choice. In the aftermath we do well to do exactly what you're doing here:share feelings, love on each other, wrap the victims family in loving care,continue to cherish the victim just the same in memory. Blessings & comfort to all

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    Know exactly where you are coming from Moe. I do not think anybody who ends it all and is the loving person I am sure Jacob was, considered at all that they are harming others in the moment when it happened. Many think their continued presence is harmful in the confused thinking of the time. And to me if God did not permit it, it simply would not have worked. There are so many stories of people who tried (genuinely I mean) and failed because of some unexpected "coincidence". But when your time is up, it is up. My husband is a paramedic and has seen this incredibly for over 30 years. Things that should kill people and unbelievably don't, and things that are minor and do unbelievably kill people. I do not understand the mind of God in timing a person's death. Why are some spared to old age and others let go young? I guess we are just not meant to know. But to love and comfort each other and cherish the memories is so vital.

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    Maybe we can simply view depression as another illness that can be fatal, as brain tumour etc. Of course the sense of loss would still be the same, but reminding ourselves that a person was very unwell might be able to take away some of the "stuff" surrounding such a loss. Just a thought.

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    Teri undreiner

    I'm so glad you did this podcast, my friends. I go from being so sad to angry, and them back to that cycle again. Jacob was so loved. I agree that if he understood what has happened to the rest of us in the wake of his death, he might very well reconsider. Maybe he didn't realize how much we loved him. He is truly missed.

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    joyce barela

    After friending him more than a year ago, we became close not only on the internet but on the phone. He was a deep thinker and I always told him he could call me anytime. As he did.. But he seemed to full of life... He never ever let on even when I asked him to take care of himself... You just never know anymore. Because those in pain will never tell anyone... I will miss our conversations...!!

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    Teri & Joyce, I didn’t know Jacob but he sounds like he was a wonderful man and a good friend. I’m so sorry about your loss and my heart goes out to you and the others who knew him. I'm glad you have your good memories of him and I pray that they will comfort you in your grief.

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    thank you for this podcast. suicide is such a strange thing. a departure from reality. You're not in your right mind when you're ready to take action. I found myself on the precipice last year. I knew I could easily do the deed, that somehow the wall of protection that had always kept me safe, were gone. The sweet call of emptiness; nothingness - no more pain - so enticing. Escape. Freedom. I did the one thing I was able to do. I wrote a few emails to friends and family. And love responded. I was rescued. Remembering is so important. Remembering that the Light shines even when we can't see it. Remembering that this too shall pass. Here's my blog about that time: And now, in the internet age, we can be loved by people we've never met. Out of my cries for help I found friends in Australia and Canada, from up in Phoenix (thank you!) and many others . . . not to mention family.

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    Yes, I ended up in a psych ward for a few days (a lovely little retreat . . . ha!) I learned that I need to take seriously the messages from my heart. I learned that half measures avail me nothing. Trying to please others, rather than going after what I need, will lead to extreme circumstances. Take yourself and your thoughts and feelings seriously. Listen to your heart and respond accordingly. Be the true you. And never be afraid to ask for help. You've nothing to lose. Much to gain.

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    I am grateful for Jacob's words and videos. They are pieces of him that we can hold onto. His heart; his words, remain. such a gift. (and he's still following my blog! actually, that's a bittersweet thing, to see his face there.

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    such a sad, sad loss. a kaleidoscope of beauty and love, passion and wisdom, vulnerability . . . raw honesty. Immense. His spirit was immense. His words reached deep. Sweetness and light. Shadows and mysteries.

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    Jacobs son anonomyous

    Please stop acting like you know my dad he did not person qlly meet any of you it pqins me to see the commen ts you people write

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