Apr 13, 2012
The Day The Music Died
Darin and Amy talk about the move that the institution made years ago, that sealed the spiritual coffins of multiplied millions of people from that point on. Christianity was never a religion until this particular teaching was born and from that day until now, something irreplaceable died. This episode of “Into the Wild” is a “book worthy” episode. An entire book could and should be written on this very topic. We can spend hours, days and weeks listing out everything we think is wrong with the church but the bottom line is that there was one decision that was made hundreds of years ago that is responsible for every stale and molded crumb of Christianity today. Enjoy!
To view this player, you must have javascript enabled.
To download podcasts, click on the 
to the right side of the player.
Copyright © 2013 The Free Believers Network | All Rights Reserved
So while I was listening to this I did a crosswalk concordance search on "Word of God". Of the almost 50 references, most of them are more acurately stated as "Word from God". Because the reference is someone seeking a personal word from God. So the Word of God spoke to .... Several NT verses come straight out and call Jesus the Word of God. People were not walking around with Bibles spread the message. Jesus told them to wait in Jerusalem for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, so they were equipped to hear the Word of God, and could minister effectively, the same way He started & did His ministry. And, it's the same way the prophets ministered: The Word of God came to ... It seems the only reason we got away from that is you can't have a centralized institution claiming your loyalty and resources if you don't need it. So the IC becomes the exclusive source and interpretation of a very limited portion of the Word of God. And to maintain this exclusivity, it teaches all else was done away.
Great stuff guys. Really good podcast.
I’m not sure how much this podcast impacts those who haven’t grown up in a bible-based atmosphere but for those of us who have, this topic is very relevant – thanks for your valuable discussion. I’m interested in the primordial soup that current Christianity evolved from (i.e. how did it get to where it is today), and should it even look like this. There is no doubt that bibliolatry has played a major role. There are a couple of synergistic factors that developed early on including the acceptance of formal positions (bishops etc.). Once this hierarchy was accepted, some dude decided his job was to teach people probably because dumb clergy were so prone to sinning (which of course, pisses God off). The main document available initially was the Greek version of the OT.
The NT canon wasn’t even finalized (without a lot of debate) until about the fourth century. Were there really no writings by Christian women worth including? Also the four gospels never specifically named their authors (these were inserted later). If every word in the Bible is gold, then what does one do say with Mark 16:9-20 (not found in the any of the earliest texts). Can we handle snakes or not? There are many discrepancies even within the same translation. It’s not however the Bible’s fault, it’s our deification of it that has led to problems.
I’m of the belief that if God wanted you to follow a book instead of Him living in you, He would have stapled a standardized version of it to you head when you were born. Now I suppose that someone can call me out as a heretic for not seeing the relevance of Ezra 6:6. Thanks again for your talk.
Oops – meant to say dumb (sin-laden) laity and not pristine clergy.
Loved this one! Stop worshiping the fricken bible and start living free!
Jim, you have written gold right there. Thanks for voicing what I also believe.
I have a book called "The Lost Books of the Bible" and it's basically the books that didn't make the final cut. James barely made it in there! He's one lucky dude.
I can't understand why the focus is on a book that was written by men and put together by men. Those men today would chuckle or cry at the kids in "Bible" college sitting on a hill reading the book in piety and service. They would say "Well I didn't mean it that way"
Tim, I'm with you that these guys would probably freak if they heard our version of what they were supposed to have said. It probably wouldn't have crossed their minds that 2K years later we would want to focus on their letters more than on Christ living in us, otherwise they might have burned their letters right after they were read. Great perspective you provided in your comment.
GREAT STUFF !!!!!!!!!!!
99.9 % of Christians have no clue what role "Redactors" played in forming what we call "The Bible" They eliminated entire Scriptures and added others, in order to blend the manuscripts that comprise today's Bible. Google "redactor" and read the role they played. Christians today would freak out if they knew how much of the Original Manuscripts were "altered" There is a passage found in the OT and NT which says God has planted "His Word" in our "Hearts" and "Minds" . This is where you will find His Ultimate Word, (in my humble oppinion).
Hey Darin you could not be more right. whats interesting is why look at the bible in such ways. It's all rooted in Greek Philosophy. We literally read scripture through a Greek lens. The Bible was an incredible testimony of the first century believers for us to believe in a real tangible way, not a fake fallow the book way. great stuff Darin
Council of Carthage 418, ah yes. The flowers, the free agape not to mention some good homegrown apocrypha being passed around. The air was charged with orthodoxy when Augustine was about to hit the stage. If you remember any of it, you probably weren’t really there.
Revised Map analogy - How do I get to the (magic) kingdom? You go a couple of miles down this road and turn left, you can't miss it. You see you live in Orlando, metaphorically. But if you ask most evangelicals they would give you the MapQuest directions that lead you around the globe before you can get there. They turn a very simple message into something very complex that serves there own purposes more than God's.
This discussion was a bondage breaker. Thank you.
Loved the discussion! Thanks!
I understand that the written word is meant to lead to a relationship with the Living word Jesus. However let's not ignore what 1 timothy 3:16 says All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching , rebuking, and training in righteousness.
hi jim, I'm but another jim (see weird comments above). I sort of see your point re:1 tim 3:16, but then again not.
There are a few scholars that feel the pastoral letters (both of the Tims etc) as we have them originated early in the second century and are not Paul’s words only. It was perfectly legitimate in those times to edit writings if you were a student of someone’s theology. Also, the main writings that were available in Paul’s time were the OT books as Darin mentions.
I wonder why Paul, who counted the old covenant stuff he had learned to be crap compared to the nc, would even write 1 tim 3:16 since scripture here probably refers to the OT. I’m with the few scholars that don’t feel this book reflects Paul’s style. I have no absolute proof, just a tingly feeling. But then no one can prove that we have an original copy of Tim either.
My opinion only.
Really great comments here. I have noticed how defensive Christians are when the Bible is "attacked". I can say from experience that it comes from a belief that God is not inside of you and you need an external "word" to tell you what to do and keep you on the straight and narrow. If you learn to listen to your heart and reject the "fleshly" side of yourself (which isn't even you), everything comes together. It's really sad when you realize that Christians who hold this belief of Scripture are blatantly denying the resurrection and don't even know it. =\ Ironically, Christians will read letters written to someone else as if they were written to them! Crazy...
Mason,
I'd have to say that from my experience, I do know that God lives in me and that His Spirit leads me from within and one of the main ways I've learned that is from his Spirit leading me into the truth in His written word, making it come alive. I'm not for worshipping the Bible , but do believe it is what 1 Tim 3:16 says it is, and don't like when it is put on the same level as a comment from facebook etc. or a novel. I know the Holy Spirit reveals truth in our hearts and also reveals Jesus, but He is the author of the book we are speaking about . I believe the Spirit and the written word work together to lead one to a deeper knowledge of the Living word who lives in you as a believer. Could the Spirit lead me without a Bible if none was available, yes? But since I believe the bible is the Written word of God , I want to avail myself of it , not as a rule book, but to draw me closer to the heart of God and a deeper revelation of Him. The Holy Spirt in me makes The Book alive .
Keep in mind Jim that 1 Tim 3:16 is speaking about the Old Testament - Not the New. The NT wasn't even around when this passage was written. 1 Tim 3:16 only outlines what Scripture is useful for. Notice that in the list it doesn't say Scripture is how we hear from God. It doesn't say it's to be used as a daily handbook for life either.
I believe the bible clearly is set apart from every other book in the world. I believe it's inspired by the Spirit of God. It's purpose was to lead us to Christ. It has great value still today but it was NEVER supposed to take the place of God Himself. We can't "get to know God" by reading the bible. We can only "get to know ABOUT God" from it. Sadly, millions of Christians can't see the difference anymore.
Darin,
Totally agree that the bible isn't meant to take the place of God, but I do have the experience of listening to the Spirit in me point me to a verse or passage and bring revelation to me seemingly as a friend to a friend and I'd have to say that when read that way (with a desire to know him and hear from Him) one can get to know God when He reveals his heart to you through the word. He can and does speak to my heart about other things and in many other ways , not just scriptures, and the scriptures teach that he speaks in other ways than the word.
My desire is to grow in understanding the reality of having a real friendship with God all through the day, not just when reading the Bible. I think I get where you are coming from regarding religiously reading your Bible or worshipping it as God but I know God still speaks today to me through it and can bring a timely word to me just when i need it that reveals His heart and stirs me to love Him. Love your podcast.
Oh yes Jim He speaks to me while reading it as well. I don't deny that at all. I'm just confronting the modern day mentality ushered in by churchianity that tells us the bible is the main way we hear from God or that it's supposed to be a handbook for daily living. We not only confuse people when we say that but we put them under an impossible load. Christians today feel that if they're not well versed in the bible they can't know God. They don't even try to know Him. I agree with everything you're saying Jim. I just feel there needs to be a line drawn so people won't give up knowing Him because they know their bibles.
jim, I respect where you are coming from and this discussion shows that God works differently in each person's life.
For me, I have almost never received a timely word or a revelation from a Bible passage (no matter what translation I used). I do admit that I know others who have and I kinda envy you and those who do, but it just hasn't worked that way for me.
Strangely enough, I absorb what I perceive to be the Spirit talking through discussions like these posts, Darin & Amy's discussion, etc. even when there are opposite views.
But then again if I was in charge of canonization, I would have canonized sitting around talking while consuming a few cold ones.
This discussion was both an eye-opener and (if we let it) a source of sorrow. One of the most liberating things of our non-churched journey though is the hope that keeps coming through when we strip away the scripts, liturgies and phrases of church communication and just talk with HIM. I am still learning how that goes but with each day that passes, my confidence grows in living loved as a non-church child of God.
Thank you for this wonderful discussion. The point reinforced what God had been drawing me into for YEARS and Darin actually put a sentence to it!
Not exact quote but, When we fully believe and accept the bible as the entire message of God, then we close the door to any real relationship with Him and begin to use the bible as a book of rules!
THANK YOU! Truth. In the IC we even had the phrase "nothing to be added or taken away from it" shoved down our throats like a baby being fed Gerber bananas. When I internalized that phrase and took it for truth, THEN - at that very instant - I put God in a box! So very sad!
For YEARS I held God in the box while I beat my head against it, longing to know that "boxed God". So much lost potential! I knew I had to leave the IC while sitting in class listening to a man dissecting a bible verse while there are hungry kids in our city. I couldn't breathe as he spoke - I wanted to scream "WE ARE MISSING IT, DONT YOU SEE!" The box is gone! Love.
All scripture is God breathed and is USEFUL for teaching , rebuking, and training in righteousness.
There are many, many practical applications in the Bible for daily living and relationships. I have taken inspired (God-breathed) to mean the same thing as when beautiful scenery inspires an artist to record in some type of media his/her perception of that scenery.
I believe that the Bible is a record of people's perceptions of who God is, their relationship with God and a record of historical events (among other things). There is much to be gained by that. However to limit ourselves to someone else's perception is doing ourselves a disservice. There are many ways of perceiving just about anything. When we open our minds to the many possibilities we open ourselves to life. I'm slowly, slowly coming around to life. I thank God for setting me truly free.
Leah, I get not being able to breathe and wanting to scream!