So that's the word both Amy and Darin were trying to think of. I couldn't figure out what word they were trying to think of. I never heard of it before until I search it on the search engine Bing.
Anyway this podcast reminds me of how people look up to celebrities as well as leaders of countries as mention a bit in the podcast about the president. We put and expect too much out them and they become stress and overwhelm because of it. It's rather sad actually. That would be another reason why there are some pastors that act mean. That and perhaps they are just going by what they were taught before becoming pastors.
Joshquinn Andrews
Nov 30, 2011
Speaking of which about the bubble thing I also find it sad that there are people in some churches who were taught or led to think that their only purpose in life is to serve the church they attend. This is one of the recent things I have learn from coming here over the past months. It's like some of these churches are trying to be like the ant/bee colonies where the worker ants/bees only purpose in life are to support the colony by gathering things.
Thankfully I wasn't raise in an environment quite like that. I manage to find things I was interested in as well as figure out what I want to do in life.
Also I'm guessing because of this bubble thing that pastors never consider or even heard of this fact which is thinking of second (backup) career choice if they don't reach their first career goal. That was something I was taught in school. Of course I know it's very hard to accept failure to reach dream goal but from the way you you imply these pastors have never heard of this fact.
Phil
Nov 30, 2011
So the word was "nepotism"? I thought it was "entitlement."
The reason why I had an ambition or desire to be in leadership positions at my church (I was a young adult and youth group leader at one point or another) was because at the time I mistakenly thought the only was I could impact people was if I had some kind of "title".
Ironically, I think I touched more people when I was just being an ordinary "layperson" and not when I had some kind of position or title.
There's definitely an egotism that comes with having a position of authority. Maybe not for everyone, but there was for me. I enjoyed people seeing me as this great spiritual person.
Doug
Dec 01, 2011
I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me! This was a Character Al Franken(now US Senator from the Great State of Minnesota)played named Stuart Smalley. Funny stuff. The old SNL was great, the new ones are OK.
Although I have never been a pastor, I do believe many of these guys set out to do good for people and to do "Gods Work", but they get launched into a system that eats their young. Frank Viola says in his book Pagan Christianity that many of these men and women are good people and gifted believers. It is the office of Pastor that he is critical of, not the hearts or intentions of the people.
Pastors end up burned and worn out from this profession because it is extremely difficult. I have a Pastor friend who is very honest with me and we discuss these issues all of the time. His Dad was a minister and he followed in his steps. He has no desire anymore to do it, but it is his livelyhood-he has a family and a life. Very tough spot.
PeterC
Dec 01, 2011
We are not suppose to be building a Church but growing the body. It is all about relationship. Where I go to church the I address the pastors by their first name, I run the sound and give them what they need. If I have comment about what they preached I bring it up with them. I have the same relationship with them as I do with every other member of the Church. Pastors are people and I give them as much or as little respect as anyone, it depends on our relationship.
Jay
Dec 01, 2011
Pastors can only exist if that's what the people want. People generally get what they deserve. Pastors who would try and set people free would very quickly be replaced. I have found that people want the system and it is no good placing the blame all at the pastors feet. He might very well be perpetuating the system, but it is the system people want. My personel experience is that the only way to experience true freedom is to eventually leave the system. I am aware that this is a journey, but if you set prisoners free from the prison system they will eventually have to leave the prison if they want to experience true freedom. It is hard for me to understand a person who has tasted true freedom to still want to be in the system. It is what it is. Fortunately we have an amazing Father who works everywhere and is not bound by any system, He loves people where ever they are at. Thanks for a great podcast.
Aimee Dassele
Dec 06, 2011
Great point Jay about people wanting the system...this is so true in many respects -in the spiritual world, the financial world, the political world, etc. Unfortunately it is our human nature in many respects to not WANT to be free. We would rather exchange freedom for 'security.' And in many cases, our version of security is what binds us. And YES - nepotism! That was it ;-)
Nepotism!
So that's the word both Amy and Darin were trying to think of. I couldn't figure out what word they were trying to think of. I never heard of it before until I search it on the search engine Bing.
Anyway this podcast reminds me of how people look up to celebrities as well as leaders of countries as mention a bit in the podcast about the president. We put and expect too much out them and they become stress and overwhelm because of it. It's rather sad actually. That would be another reason why there are some pastors that act mean. That and perhaps they are just going by what they were taught before becoming pastors.
Speaking of which about the bubble thing I also find it sad that there are people in some churches who were taught or led to think that their only purpose in life is to serve the church they attend. This is one of the recent things I have learn from coming here over the past months. It's like some of these churches are trying to be like the ant/bee colonies where the worker ants/bees only purpose in life are to support the colony by gathering things.
Thankfully I wasn't raise in an environment quite like that. I manage to find things I was interested in as well as figure out what I want to do in life.
Also I'm guessing because of this bubble thing that pastors never consider or even heard of this fact which is thinking of second (backup) career choice if they don't reach their first career goal. That was something I was taught in school. Of course I know it's very hard to accept failure to reach dream goal but from the way you you imply these pastors have never heard of this fact.
So the word was "nepotism"? I thought it was "entitlement."
The reason why I had an ambition or desire to be in leadership positions at my church (I was a young adult and youth group leader at one point or another) was because at the time I mistakenly thought the only was I could impact people was if I had some kind of "title".
Ironically, I think I touched more people when I was just being an ordinary "layperson" and not when I had some kind of position or title.
There's definitely an egotism that comes with having a position of authority. Maybe not for everyone, but there was for me. I enjoyed people seeing me as this great spiritual person.
I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me! This was a Character Al Franken(now US Senator from the Great State of Minnesota)played named Stuart Smalley. Funny stuff. The old SNL was great, the new ones are OK.
Although I have never been a pastor, I do believe many of these guys set out to do good for people and to do "Gods Work", but they get launched into a system that eats their young. Frank Viola says in his book Pagan Christianity that many of these men and women are good people and gifted believers. It is the office of Pastor that he is critical of, not the hearts or intentions of the people.
Pastors end up burned and worn out from this profession because it is extremely difficult. I have a Pastor friend who is very honest with me and we discuss these issues all of the time. His Dad was a minister and he followed in his steps. He has no desire anymore to do it, but it is his livelyhood-he has a family and a life. Very tough spot.
We are not suppose to be building a Church but growing the body. It is all about relationship. Where I go to church the I address the pastors by their first name, I run the sound and give them what they need. If I have comment about what they preached I bring it up with them. I have the same relationship with them as I do with every other member of the Church. Pastors are people and I give them as much or as little respect as anyone, it depends on our relationship.
Pastors can only exist if that's what the people want. People generally get what they deserve. Pastors who would try and set people free would very quickly be replaced. I have found that people want the system and it is no good placing the blame all at the pastors feet. He might very well be perpetuating the system, but it is the system people want. My personel experience is that the only way to experience true freedom is to eventually leave the system. I am aware that this is a journey, but if you set prisoners free from the prison system they will eventually have to leave the prison if they want to experience true freedom. It is hard for me to understand a person who has tasted true freedom to still want to be in the system. It is what it is. Fortunately we have an amazing Father who works everywhere and is not bound by any system, He loves people where ever they are at. Thanks for a great podcast.
Great point Jay about people wanting the system...this is so true in many respects -in the spiritual world, the financial world, the political world, etc. Unfortunately it is our human nature in many respects to not WANT to be free. We would rather exchange freedom for 'security.' And in many cases, our version of security is what binds us. And YES - nepotism! That was it ;-)