Mar 05, 2010
The Right To Be Human
Darin and Robert have an interesting discussion about embracing our humanity. So many times in Christian circles we are encouraged and even dared to step outside of our humanity, despise it, ignore it and even lie to others about it. We have been raised to believe that there is something wrong with our flesh. Many Christians have fallen into the trap of trying to make believe that they are all spirit and they should reject any human part of themselves. Could it be that true spirituality is actually embracing our humanness and living openly and honestly within that realm?
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"We are not what we've done, all that stuff stays with the flesh. It is our heart that stands before God." Profound statement, but such a simple thought! We have lost our identity by basing it on our flesh and not our heart. In the ORG. that my family has just left, the women have completely lost their identity because they don't have "The right to be human." We were the graven images of the ORG. and in the middle of all that, we lost who we were. I am finally free to be me...the ME that Jesus intended for me to be!..He created my personality, so He understand my good and bad days, and He takes me as I am because He sees my heart. Another thought provoking podcast...love it !!
I was around rage/out of control anger: like one time my dad threw a fork across the table and it actually stuck in my sisters arm. We actually laughed about this later, but I say all this to make a point about "feeling" anger.of course God has had to heal us and help us "deal" with our anger and the why of it all, but I honestly have so many friends that were not aloud to feel and didn't see anger or their parents being angry or have their parents hug and kiss them with real passion. my mom is Italian and full of passion including very in-touch with her anger/Dad a very emotional musician/crazy/funny.I have often thought in my heart that I would rather have this family then some of my friends families where everything was fake.I would love to meet spitfire sounds like a great humanbeing!
This whole issue has more aspects to it. I grew up in a pastor's home where my mother was finally diagnosed bipolar when I was 26. My dad managed 25 years in the ministry and could preach wonderful sermons but during the week the dishes flew; my mother even tossed my 2 mo. old baby sister across the room--fortunately my dad caught her, but I was only 13 and watched terrified. We were all adversely affected by alternate rage and silence, no discussion of what happened whatsoever, and no affection. Worse the church was oblivious and there was no counseling available. I finally found a good therapist when I reached my late 40's and that is another story. I didn't see anything healthy either in the church or in my home.
Lynn,wow your story.I've heard so many of these stories and of course I even have more horrifying stuff to tell.but when you said."Worse the church was oblivious and there was no counseling available." this is what is so screwy. the counseling was non existant an the alternative was "Demon posession" teaching. I ended up learning to hear the HOly Spirit so clear.I mean He would give me amazing insights about myself, early on.that helped me deal with the rage inside of me. I found out in my 30's all the hell my parents were from I mean literally Hollywood drama.quite literally. the Truth is, at the end of all this I can honestly say.Nothing, not even RELIGIOUS CRAP has seperated "us" from the Love of God.I've screamed at God and He didn't even bat an eye.He knew my heart. thks for sharing.
"Stop tying your flesh into your heart." "We attribute things that our flesh struggles with, and we add it to our heart, as though that's where our heart is. You are not what you have done." Wow! This should be broadcast loudly from every pulpit on the planet, but it will never happen. Why? Because it would set so many people free. The IC exists today because it is able to keep their people in spiritual bondage. Oh, on the surface they may not have that direct intention, but the result is the same. At the very least, Darin, these are life-freeing truths that more people need to hear. I often wonder if the the "Mystery Babylon the Great" of Revelation 17 is what the IC is turning into. When I think of all the deceit, the captivity, the squelching of the body...I wonder?
I think fear of our anger has warped us in more ways than we know (speaking both of myself and the American culture at large). One of the many ways that Churchianity has lost touch with humanity.
Great chat guys. It's ok to be angry! I even cuss from time to time. =) Is it possible to be passionate without expressing anger?
LearningRest, no one has responded to your question yet so I will. I think it really depends on what we’re passionate about but I do believe it’s impossible to be passionate about something without having some sort of emotional response. Sometimes, people are passionate about something that interests them such as a hobby so, in that case, the emotion would probably be joy or excitement. However, I find it hard to believe that someone could be passionate about seeing people set free from hurt and injustice without being angry at what others have suffered.
What about when Moses struck the rock? God told him he could not enter the promised land because of it but several times he says he is not allowed to enter because of the people. Ah, so deliciously human. I think there can be very destructive anger (when anger is out of control, selfish, taken out on others who have nothing to do with it, abusive). It is horrible to live with for anyone,especially for a child. But I know that is not what you guys are talking about.
I think the Moses story was a picture of his refusal to cross over from Old Testament rituals to New Testament relationship. He first had to "strike the rock." That was a ritual. Something a cave man would do. It was heartless, but nevertheless obedient. The next time he was told to "TALK to the rock." That's relationship. Moses chose the old way in place of relationship. The rock represents Jesus. I think many many Christians never experience the promised land for this exact same reason. They're stuck in the old world of beating rocks and refusing to talk to them. Anyway, it's a great story that really depicts the state of American Christianity is a staggering way.
Thanks for that excellent explanation. Never heard it explained that way before. (Australian Christianity too!)