Jul 10, 2010
Trading in Your Principles
Darin and Aimee talk about the transition many Christians go through from a principles based lifestyle to a heart based life. The idea of living life by a set of principles is really not possible if you want to be a heart person. Many of us have been raised on principles and formulas our entire lives and it can be difficult to give up that mentality and trust that the power to live life is something that happens naturally within each of us. Giving up the principles mentality opens the door to life and frees each of us to truly know Him from our hearts and become whatever He has created us to be.
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Interesting, I dont know that I have ever tried to tell anyone how I feel without proving it is ok by using the Bible to back me up. Even more fascinating, is that I am even scared to not use a capital letter in front of God, Jesus or Bible.
Well you should use a capital letter because they're proper names, the same as 'David', Steve, 'Great Expectations' or 'Allah'.
But what if you are an Intuition based person? I can't just operate from my feelings. I wouldn't want to. I use my thinking quite a lot.
Thanks for this podcast. I think I've felt the pressure to have sensible formulas and rhyming rules in my back pocket when I talk about my freedom, in order to justify it or make it understandable to the IC Christian. Recently, it really surprised me when I attempted to talk to an atheist about my free faith and got the same rigid dogma in response. They didn't seem any happier that I was free. (Some even make non-belief a religion.) It seems impossible to have a heart to heart talk with anyone who is closed-minded. All they can hear is the "principled" jargon of their religion.
Dave, using small letters instead of caps can be a breakthrough. Like Tiggy, I believe God and Jesus should be capitalized because they’re proper names and I believe it shows respect for individuals to capitalize their names. However, although it may be grammatically correct to capitalize the word bible, you might just need to start using small letters in order to break free from the institutional mindset regarding the bible. I still capitalize the word bible although I’ve stopped capitalizing the word christian or any of the denominational words such as baptist, etc. It’s important to be free and, if tradition is holding you back, I think it’s okay to break tradition and even do what’s grammatically incorrect.
Tiggy, I haven’t listened to this podcast yet however I honestly don’t believe listening to our heart and going by our feelings are the same. I believe our heart is the intuitive part of us. While there may be thinking and emotional aspects to it, I believe it goes beyond either one. I guess I would call it a gut feeling. It may not go along with our head and it may feel like emotions but it’s not. I’m a thinker too. I love to think and I have no plans to stop thinking. Some issues are best solved through thinking them through and, just from knowing Darin, I don’t think he believes we shouldn’t think. IMO, thinking is an important part of this journey but our thinking as well as our emotions should never lead. They’re only meant to support our heart which is intuitive.
Aida, Thanks yes, that was what I was saying. I am just saying how I still fall into the IC mindset of either A.) If I dont do it this way I am gonna get in trouble. or B.) Trying to justify my actions to others using what Darin calls "back it up with a bible verse" theology. After I read Darins book, and listening to the podcasts and reading the blogs I know in my heart he is right. I have known all my life that the things I was hearing didn't make sense. This is an excellent podcast on getting out of justification through principles (or anything else for that matter)for doing what you know in your heart is true and right. I think we all seek acceptance on some level from others, I think I am just trying too hard to get that acceptance.
Dave, I remember going through the stage where I was trying to memorize scripture and, if I said even one word wrong, I would get stressed. Even something as simple as using the word “the” instead of the word “an” would throw me off. Of course, I eventually gave up memorizing scripture and now I know that it’s the heart of what was said that really matters. Don’t worry about where you are on this journey. Just relax. Do what you can and let God continue to set you free. In time, you’ll start seeing those bondages fall off but don’t spend a lot of time trying to deal with them yourself or even worrying about them. It sounds to me like you’re doing just great!
Thanks for the encouragement Aida. I think you are right on about heart vs. feelings as well. That was an excellent point. That is the same way that I determine sin. I am considering something, or about to do something when God (my heart) will tell me it is wrong, don't do it, and I know it, I can FEEL it. Its the same way that I know Darin was right on target in "the misunderstood God" My heart said YES! My gut said YES! and my brain said YES! That, Is the difference between feeling and Heart. I love you people.
This was so excellent! I'm hearing almost the same or such a similar conversation from so many different influences of people. This is one reason I'm so glad to be out of the box, because it's so much more noticeable when one friend mentions almost the same concept that your other friends are talking about and they've never heard about any of you books or podcasts you are into... It's just almost freaky... BTW goofy Aimee... it wasn't "pagen Christianaity" I was talking about "Velvet Elvis"... but maybe it reminded you of the Pagan Chrisianity book... tee hee... reminds me of how Darin kept forgetting about you... (: of course I love any attention I can get... I'm so seriously deprived... lol... loved the podcast!
Another angle on principles: Someone I respect made a distinction between principles and promises. The James scripture like Proverbs are principles, not promises. We often think that whatever the bible says it is a promise but it is rather a principle on how to handle as opposed to an absolute promise on how to get a specific outcome.
I remember thinking I was saved for many many years. One day an old man friend of mine questioned my salvation. Once I actually decided to BELIEVE in Jesus and His love I was truly saved. That was 2 years ago. I am truly saved because I believe, not because of a prayer or an aquatic ritual. Thanks for that Darin.
David.. I recently read.. "The Naked Gospel".. and what you are saying confirms even more what Andrew Farley says about the book of James and faith without works is dead... I've always read that with a works based and condemning attitude until I heard his point of view on it.. I very much relate to your experience.. it wasn't until I stepped out and actually believed with some sort of action involved.. even "action" within my heart... a real "believe"...
Aida, my eyes popped open when I read what you wrote about memorizing scripture. I used to think that it was so important to do memory work in case I was ever without a bible...It hit me how silly that was considering that I have the word living in me through the spirit. (I practiced using sm. letters) And it really is about knowing the meaning/intent of what's written. So why do sunday schools emphasize memory work? Knowing the actual words doesn't mean a child actually grasps the truth...it is the spirit that carries a truth deep into a child's heart.
Faith, memorizing scripture is a big deal in the institutional church but the truth is the early church didn’t have a bible and they got along just fine. The emphasis on memorizing scripture is built around the psalm where David said he had hidden the word in his heart so that he wouldn’t sin. He had no other choice since he was an OT believer. However, today, we already have the word living in our hearts so we really don’t have to put it in anymore. What we now need to do is to let it out. In the OT, God worked from the outside in. Today, he works from the inside out drawing life from what’s already in our hearts. That’s why we’re hearing things on these podcasts and from one another that we always knew.
Aida, all of this makes so much sense! The emphasis on memorizing scripture assumes that the spirit can't bring an understanding back to your attention, without the exact words. And it is based on a belief that a christian is unable to hear God for themselves outside of bible verses..that God is not able to use anything else except the exact words in the bible. That makes god out to be small and us dense! So some of the IC principles we've been taught re: living a spiritual life don't add up. They seem to contradict the reality of the new life we have in Christ. And what it does amount to is worship of the bible. Thanks for sharing your insight.
Another great podcast. So many important points which affect us all on this journey - where do I start? One of the points that stands out for me was the statement about feeling you are starting all over again - like a toddler. It's as if you're finding out what works for yourself, rather than just being dictated to by people who give you tall tales and sad stories. One thing's for sure: principles and formulas simply do not work! All the affirmations based stuff, confessing Bible verses and such like - is just complete nonsense. The reverb effect was interesting! You sounded like you were in the middle of a big hall or something.
I appreciate the point Aimee made about believers who have spent time in solitary confinement in imprisonments situations -- although my experience was not to that extreme, I did spend four long months in a remote town in Northeast China, living with an atheist Chinese lady. As far as I knew, I was the only believer (and foreigner for that matter). I learned first-hand what it was like to be without "the fellowship of other believers" ... teachings ... meetings, etc., etc. and still KNOW that I was in Him and He was in Me...and all was OK in the world (and within)!! :)
I was raised in the Nazarene church, too. Wow, every church camp, many sermons, always feeling like I needed to be saved over and over again. That somehow I "lost" my salvation because I was still a sinner. Ugh, the guilt.
Yes Wendy, I remember well. It's so great to be free from that mentality isn't it?
Yes, it is. I sometimes find myself going back to that mentality and have to remind myself. But I know I am free and saved and that is great!
My sister-in-law (a bAPTIST) corrected a woman interviewing her for a "cHRISTIAN" job who spelled God as "god"... my guess is she did so in simple error and I would probably have thrown her resume in the trash just then.