Nov 15, 2011
What is spiritual Maturity
Darin and Robert talk about how religion has hijacked the concept of “spiritual maturity” and turned it into spiritual cloning. The concept of becoming “Christ like” and what that means is a topic that is endlessly tangled and twisted by religion in an effort to force individuals into conforming to a pre-set mold. That mold, unfortunately is more reminiscent of a Teletubby then it is of a Savior and King. Understanding spiritual maturity in the context of the masses is impossible. It must be understood according to the individual.
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It seems to me that a person is 'spiritually mature' when they come to total confidence in God's love for them. or as Darin says...'they GET the revalation.' And that spiritual maturity fleshes itself out my growing ability/heart to give the people around me that same kind of confidence in my love for them. That I am loved, that they are loved, for who they are, not what they have to give, not inspite of 'ourselves'. but just delighted in by God, and that there is nothing that I can do about that, to either increase it or decrease it! When i meet that person who is walking in that freedom, and giving others that gift, that is when I think...'spiritually mature'. And I want nothing more than to be in their presence.
Gosh it's been so long since I've even given this a thought. My thinking is just so far removed for..well,..all that! :) But I loved what ya'll had to say....Good stuff!
Spiritual maturity is like having a black belt in a martial art. It should signify that you understand enough about your skill level not to be a danger to yourself or others. Of course there are lots of martial arts schools out there where if you pay the teacher the right amount of money and score well enough by the teacher's standards that you are awarded the belt. A lot of churches are like that. Pay your tithe, take all the classes and then you are considered mature enough to be a leader.
I never really think/worry about this anymore but this was a great discussion and a lot of lights went on for me about some things. It's kind of a paradox, in my opinion, that it seems no longer so much a destination but a way of being; of living in the Spirit and open to "flowing" and being willing to adjust and speak/act spontaneously rather then programatically; of being sure that you can never be SURE of what you think you KNOW, just sure of our Loving God and moving away from trying to put Him/Her in a box or tie Them down with words, dogma, theology, rules; relaxing and becoming more childlike and fun loving but also braver about speaking up especially about God's loving character when "authorities" are misrepresenting Him/Her; and defending those incapable of defending themselves. And yes these things seem to come supernaturally - sometimes I can't believe what I am saying or doing but it isn't coming from my head/convictions but from my heart/gut. I think a sign of this
maturity is that it isn't something you focus on as in expecting others to think highly of you but seems to manifest itself in your desire to make others aware how okay they are, how spiritually "smart" they are, when you sincerely communicate that you don't know it all and that you enjoy learning from others. I see alot of this in you Darin - you kind of have a way of "leveling the playing field" and approaching others in a spirit of equality and encouraging others giving them spiritual confidence even as you are teaching. I don't know how you do it exactly but while it's unique and great you seem more about each of us finding our own unique ways of expressing and living our walk then becoming cookie cutters of you. Very refreshing. I don't know if you have a different definition of "tolerance" but having come from a religiously intolerant mindset with there being only one right way - being tolerant in allowing others to have a different opinion is something I highly value.
I can totally relate to a couple of things Darin and Robert spoke about. First, as Darin said some people "get it" overnight, that's how it was for me. One day I was tied up in knots, and almost by the next day (or maybe it was actually a week or two), the knots were loosed and I finally knew and felt the one thing I always needed to know but didn't, and that is God loves me, period.
When Darin was describing this overnight thing, I thought of the movie The Matrix, when Neo was "downloading" all of those training programs. That's sort of what this is like. You open up to this message, God plugs in, and the download begins. It's incredible!
Robert mentioned something about classes or bases. The building we once attended that called itself church had a series of four classes they called the Baseball Diamond classes. The changed the name to "The Ascent", which still had 4 levels. Once I was done I thought I had "arrived". But I still didn't KNOW God, and I didn't KNOW His love.
I think of tolerance, or being tolerant differently than you Moe. For instance, we are not tolerant of some of our children's behavior. To allow it means you're being tolerant.
When I do not tolerate their behavior, I still love them. I correct their behavior because of love. However, there is a difference between behavior, and someone's personality. I don't mind changing my children's behavior, but I still want them to be themselves.
Both the politically correct crowd, AND the building that calls itself a church have twisted "tolerance", in my opinion. The PC/Media etc crowd says we should be tolerant of homosexuality. The building/church crowd tries to say that the PC/Media crowd are trying to get us to accept homosexuality.
For me, it's neither side. The homosexual is a person. This is not an issue of tolerance, it is about loving a person as is, as God loves them as is. If that person gets this message of God's love and grace, it is God who will do a work within them...
Our job is not to change them. We are to simply love. It's not about "tolerance" of a lifestyle. Tolerance has nothing to do with it. And it's not about purposely being intolerant because you have a political agenda that's being sold to you by the building/church. That crowd always says that they need to "take back America for God", and by that they usual mean banning this and making that illegal.
God can take back anything He wants, whenever He wants. But I think the more than a country or a political agenda, He wants hearts.
In my opinion, "tolerance" played a role in the Penn State scandal. Look where tolerance got Penn State!!
"Spiritual Maturity"? I think if you have it you know it. But, in the wrong context, it puts people into comparison mode.
I think people can sense where you're at, and they will begin to ask you questions because they can see you have some good things to share. I have people like that in my life. The flip side is, I would never say I have "arrived". I still am amazed at what I can learn from Darin, and others such as Wayne Jacobsen. I certainly don't look at those two as being more spiritually mature. I look at it more as they are my "elders" in the true church. And I may be an elder to those I mentioned that seek me out with questions about God and spiritual things. But to me an elder is not someone we vote for (aka the buildings popularity contest). It is someone YOU pick to allow to be mentored by.
Ok, I've gone on long enough. Time for Thursday Night Football on the NFL Network.
Deuces
Spiritual Maturity is something I really haven't given much thought to. My thoughts on it are as Paul said, when I was a Child I thought as a Child, now that I am a man I have put away childish things. I may have butchered that scripture but that is the point of it.
Playing the games I learned, like forcing and manipulating God, falling over in the prayer line, pretending the tongues language, saying I was healed when I wasn't, and others was very immature for me. I see much of that as childish games and have put that away for life. I want to be real with my God as He is real to me. I don't want games anymore, I just want to rest in the finished work of Christ and trust that it is finished.
Thank you Kimball for explaining your view of "tolerance". Communication can be difficult when two or more people have a different understanding or usage for the same word. Your thoughts really helped me. I especially like your point that more than a country or political (and may I add religious?) agenda, what God wants is hearts. That is the focus that resounds in my own heart and comforts me. Rightly used I still think tolerance: to be patient, allow, endure, permit and give leeway, guided by the Spirit and practiced in love is a good thing. God has re-educated me in so many areas. One concept that helps me is BOTH/AND thinking as opposed to EITHER/OR. A good example is I can BOTH totally accept a person AND not approve of or agree with some of their choices, opinions etc. The challenge of course relationally is figuring out exactly how to practice that. Tolerance I see practicing with the guy behind me going 80 mph on a two lane highway & on my often forgetful self, etc :)
I believe , at least in my own life,has been a proper understanding of the meaning of meekness in a Christians life.Secondly,walking in a state of thankfulness to God.