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Nov 19, 2009

Silencing the Abducted

I have found that the scales and measuring rods that we relied upon in the past are of no use in this new world of the wild. It’s kind of like when a bus driver asks a pilot how many miles it is from Arizona to Kansas City. The pilot naturally thinks in nautical-miles whilescale the bus driver listens with a street-miles mindset. When he drives for twelve hours and passes the number of miles the pilot gave him and realizes he is still in Colorado, he feels deceived and lied to. 

What is true and right in one world may be insignificant and wrong in another. One of the major keys to finding truth in this life comes through knowing what world we are speaking from and from what world the person we are speaking to is listening from.  

I was once informed by a specialist that I was a heroin addict and needed treatment right away. The person who diagnosed me asked if I thought I had a problem with heroin. I said, “Definitely not!” He gave me a knowing look and explained that denial is one of the first signs that a person is a full-fledged addict. It also happens to be the first response from someone who has never taken heroin in his life, which was the case with me. When people attempt to translate life with the measuring devices from their personal world, they become a spiritual bull in a china closet.  

I think one of the funniest passages in the New Testament was when Paul informed the Corinthians that Satan masquerades as an angel of light. Not many angel sightings happened after that comment, did they? I’ve always felt sorry for the angels who happened to overhear Paul’s unfortunate analogy two-thousand years ago. I picture them rolling their eyes and saying, “Gee....... THANKS A LOT PAUL!” Yes, Satan may masquerade as an angel of light, but angels of light also appear as angels of light. At least they used to. 

The world of religion that I grew up in was measured by principles that were created by and applied to a group of people who held to a bunch of ideas but didn’t know for sure whether or not any measureof them were true. Everything about God and Jesus was stuff we all read about and passed along stories about, but none of us had ever actually met either of them in person, so we didn’t know any of this stuff first hand. Home group meetings consisted of people throwing out their latest ideas about God and trying with all their might to present them in a way that fits with the stuff the rest of the folks held to.

Because of the condition of our religious existence, we measured things like humility and maturity by a specific set of principles. We determined whether or not a person was teachable, arrogant, haughty, rebellious, argumentative or closed-minded based on that same set of principles. If a person claimed to know anything about God for certain, they were considered to be arrogant and close-minded because of their unwillingness to open their hearts to other possibilities of truth that people had to offer. To speak with any degree of certainty about something that no one else in the room could know for sure was a clear sign that a person had an unteachable, haughty spirit. If person “A” made a claim about God and person “B” said,scals“You are wrong about that”, it was considered closed-minded and spiritually immature for person “A” to stand up for what he said and not back down.  Anyone who disagreed with something the pastor said about God was immediately labeled as "not submitting to spiritual authority".   

Because everything was subjective in the religious world and based on interpretation, the scale in which we judged people’s spirituality was marked by the amount of hours they spent studying and praying. Also, the measurement of time that a person has pastorbeen a Christian is taken into account. In a world where no one knows anything for sure, these are fair measurements of rank and seniority.    

The only way to measure such things as who will lead and who will have authority over others was through these methods. At the end of the day it came down to one question; who knew the most about the bible and the doctrine of the church. The person who kept up with their studies and purposed in their heart to memorize large amounts of scripture, was eventually the leader of everyone else. He who studies, leads. 

I said all that to say this: 

Today we live in a completely different world as Free Believers. Today, I sometimes feel like a guy who grew up in Roswell, New Mexico and believed in aliens my whole life, and then finally, one day I was actually abducted by a real alien space ship. You would thinkalien that if you were ever abducted by aliens, Roswell would be the best place for it to happen because everyone there would be more likely to believe your story. I would at least think it would be better than if it happened in Santa Fe or Albuquerque. At least Roswell is full of believers. Surely people there would be ready to listen to and embrace your account of what happened. 

The problem is that Roswell is very much like religion. Everyone believes in aliens like there’s no tomorrow, but no one really knows for sure if they exist. Because of this, you can be certain that the believers in Roswell measure their level of respect for each other by how much they’ve studied, how many books they’ve read, what abduction sites they’ve visited, how long they’ve lived in Roswell and most of all; how many friends they have who actually claim to have seen a UFO. In that environment, these measuring tools are perfect. In fact, there is no better way to measure UFO believers in an environment like that.  


shipIF YOU ARE ACTUALLY ABDUCTED by a space ship full of aliens, the people of Roswell CANNOT use ANY of their measuring tools on YOU. Those tools work only for the specific crowd of people they were created for. They only work for people who’ve never been abducted, but believe nonetheless. The measuring tools used for non-abducted believers do not apply to abducted-believers.  

If you were abducted by aliens and you did live in Roswell, I can guarantee you that you will wish you didn’t. People would be furious if any of your experience didn’t match the stuff they’ve read about. They would require you to explain your abduction in the exact same language and dialect as the farmer from 1923 used when he wrote about his abduction in the corn field. If you veer from that in any way, they won’t believe you. There is also going to be a lot of jealousy among believers in Roswell that you won’t find in Albuquerque. In relating your experience to people, you would be held to the same standard of communication that people who had never been abducted hold themselves to when they talk about aliens. If you dare to stand on what you saw with your own eyes, you would ultimately be blackballed from the entire town for not being more humble in your presentation.  

I’ve had people accuse me of being an immature Christian because I won’t back down on certain things. They’ll size me up as being argumentative and as having a spirit that “always has to be right and won’t even consider the opinions of others” when it comes to certain subjects in reference to God’s heart.  Back in my religious days they would be EXACTLY RIGHT. The tools of measuring arrogance work very well for the world of religion christianbut I am no longer in that world and therefore cannot be measured by it’s scales. Unfortunately, many people are still living in those religious days so they have no other tools with which to measure the abducted-Christians.  

Unfortunately, there are many people who are still measuring themselves and others by the pre-abduction religious scales of the past. An abducted-Christian will weigh in as unteachable, arrogant, haughty, and closed-minded when standing on a non-abducted scale. Sadly, we live in a world where there are more non-abducted-Christians than there are abducted-Christians, and because of this we have abducted-Christians trying to speak the language of the majority in order to tilt the scale and get a different reading.  

I sometimes feel that there is a conspiracy among the religious, to shut the mouths of abducted-Christians. Through the use of political correctness, people who have been to the Father are peer-pressured into not speaking from that perspective. They’re made to second-guess what they have seen and what they know, and trade it in for an unsure attitude. At what point are we who have been to the Father going to stand up and unashamedly speak out what we’ve witnessed first hand? I honestly believe that until we do so, things will never change.  

I know what I know, because I’ve witnessed the heart of God first hand. The only thing I will remain unsure of is the thing I’ve not witnessed with my own eyes. When I have witnessed something however, I will stand on what I’ve witnessed and proclaim it loudly, without shame or fear of being perceived as arrogant and unteachable by others. I do knowbelieve that the day is quickly coming where the abducted-Christians will outnumber the non-abducted. It was that way when the Church began and it will be that way again someday.  

I’m glad that Paul and John never took on the politically correct attitude of today when they spoke of the heart of God. Neither of them ever presented their knowledge of Him as though it may or may not be right. They didn’t act like what they knew was just an idea that they came up with on their own. They stood up and strongly proclaimed what they saw. That is what I am looking for in this generation of Free Believers. Please don’t allow the scales of the religious past to intimidate you or to cause you to re-word what you know about Him. You’re being measured on completely different scales in the wild.

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  1. Gravatar

    Wow! This is what I was thinking just yesterday, before knowing this would ever appear here. Let me explain. I was thinking - who invented the "There's nothing good in you" teaching? I don't believe it was an evil person. I think it was years ago when the audience of listeners was full of boasters, people full of pride with no love for others. And the message for them was - wake up! I think the same is for with the Rapture fear message. I think it was invented with an honest attempt to wake up those who had no love for God, no interest in Him. Now, I'm not trying to say those inventions were good. But the most horrible thing is they're being applied today without any attempt to check out who's in the audience. And in case it is full of honest loving people, the message of such kind is ...

  2. Gravatar

    ... ABSOLUTELY DESTRUCTIVE! And that's where your analogy of old and new world comes in. These preachers don't see how destructive they are because they know absolutely NOTHING about the hearts of their audience. They try to pour old wine into new wineskins and don't see they're destroying the vessels! It's like taking a passage from the Old Testament where God screams out load how horrible Isrealites were, reading it to a congregation of loving and honest people and telling them it's their case. In their honesty those people will do everything to find their mistakes and faults and will blame themselves of being as horrible as the people from the Bible passage. They will lose their freedom and peace in the name of a religious world dead for centuries. Horrible, horrible... still it happens

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    .. every day. Maybe those teachings were good for something 50 years ago. I don't dare judge that. But we're supposed to judge according to the FRUIT. And the fruit today is in many cases obviously wrong. Maybe it was meant symbolically in the past, but what if a single Christian takes the sentence "There's nothing good in you" literally? It'll kill him, destroy him and drive him crazy. Does any of those preachers today say: "Guys, this is not meant literally, it's just a way to watch out for pride."? Does any parent tell his kid - THERE'S NOTHING GOOD IN YOU, EVERYTHING YOU ARE IS MEEEEE!!! BECAUSE I GAAAVE YOUU YOUUR LIFEEE!!! That sounds like devil's selfishness to me. I think the most important thing is to KNOW the heart and the world of the person you're speaking to. And to love him.

  4. Gravatar

    Darin, you wrote Thank you for these words of hope this morning. I don't know how quickly, but there are days when I feel like I'm about to climb the walls waiting to see this hope manifest.

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    Wow that was weird, part of my post disappeared. You wrote "I do believe that the day is quickly coming where the abducted-Christians will outnumber the non-abducted. It was that way when the church began and it will be that way again someday." Thank you, I needed to hear this.

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    Myso, I really appreciate what you said here as well. I have had many guilt-ridden moments that I now believe were mostly unwarranted. IMO, the sharp messages of admonishment and correction seem to hurt the people who are honestly trying and seeking, while skimming past the people whose hearts are closed.

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    David Backus

    I was just thinking. I was looking back in the Bible at the way the disciples and the apostles did church in those days and I was thinking that it would be near impossible to pull that off nowadays. I fell in love with the way they had it and wished I could have done it like that. But in today's culture people are too divided and institutionalized for it. Too many denominations, etc... Anyhow, I came to the realization that we will never do it the "way they did it." Whatever I do I have to go with what my heart tells me here and now. No, God doesn't change, but we people do. The Bible spoke to the culture when it was written. In the spirit of the Bible with the spirit of God, in our dealings, we should also be aware that we don't live in the first century under first century paradigm.

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    AMEN my beloved brother in Christ. I, too, have been seeing his works and proofs that HE is abducting ppl more into his life and experience! This article is well written and it sounds a wonderful toned bell in my heart. Continue on, and sing it loud! Thank you for sharing! AMEN AMEN AND AMEN!

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    vickey close

    WoW!!!!!!!!!! Darin, thank you once again for speaking for me! You have come out of what I have come out of . it almost destroyed me, the rejection when you question was aweful.i don't ever want to be in that postion again. I will never give my power away to a doctrin or man.... It gives me hope because where i live i am alone, i know no other freebelievers of abducted ones,,, it is lonely, and i just can't do church anymore, although if you or Jim palmer were sharing i would most definately go!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Darin

  10. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    If Jim and I ran a church together, he would be the Pastor and I would be the janitor:-) He rocks doesn't he? Thanks Vickey!

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    Robert Hall

    It Is a shame that we so called believers.. Look at the world through the eyes of death. The world is dying.. and we need to save it. No. It it we. the individual who is dead. And needs a " Jesus Jump Start. Were do we get off putting the Ruller/measuring Rod to any one or anybody? If we do not LOVE. We are the "stick" by wich we will be measured.

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    Chris Pack

    Darin, keep it up. Your writings and podcasts are the words to the songs people are humming. You're giving so many of us a language for what we're feeling and, like the old measurements, we can't use the old language. It's no good to us.

  13. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    Thanks Chris. That's really a nice thing to say. I needed that today. Going through a bit of depression.

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    Jim K

    Hey I was just in Roswell. Bought myself an 'Alien' coffee cup with the cutest little alien on it. I'll NEVER look at it with the same filter again. I'll always think of this post and be reminded how easily I slip back into old patterns especially now when I'm just getting my feet wet out here in the wild.

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    I get it, Darin. I know in the past we've had different outlooks on things, but in my experience, I can relate to this article. My wife and I have walked away from the church because of a consistency in closed-mindedness. I want to believe in God and Christ as my savior, but I don't want to subscribe to all of the hullabaloo that surrounds the culture of being a contemporary Christian.

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    Rachel Liegghio

    Thanks Darin, I think this message is the most critical thing I have gotten from you. The freedom to stop speaking the language and the freedom to stop judging myself by the institutional measurements has been the most liberating message I have ever heard. I left the institution in my heart a long time ago, but I felt this obligation to remain in the dysfunction of it all. Your message has liberated me to just leave and stop trying to change it all, but just go on with Love. We have been completely out now for a few years and it is so freeing to stop speaking the language. This blog is the most concise description of that experience. Thanks for continuing to articulate your experience and know that we "bear witness" to what you are saying :)

  17. Gravatar

    Hi Darin, I've just discovered your website and I'm enjoying it!I've had lots of similar experiences. I've lived through some of the messiness of church life. I'm in shock today, I spent time with my 20 year old daughter, she has come to love God in the last year. She is part of an apprentice type minisrty in our church, she told me today she and the other young people do not get the same food as church staff, each day the pastor's food comes from a good quality store . The young people's food is from a cheap food store and is of poor quality. two different young people leave the church office to buy food in two diffferent stores based on the status of the person. The young people do all the menial work, cleaning etc.I can't get my head around it, the church has over 1 million in the bank.

  18. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    Sorry to hear that Carmel. That's terrible.

  19. Gravatar
    Corey J. Couturier

    Thanks Darin! I remember when you first taught your series on Love, and I was so excited because everything you were saying confirmed in my heart what I already knew was true. Unfortunately, the people in my church would have none of it. I played your lesson for our entire church, thinking they would be so excited. I was watched with a very cautious eye from that time on. Why?
    Because the language you spoke was different from their language. They never got it. And then I no longer fit in with what was being taught. I was labelled as rebellious, a troublemaker, resistant to authority, etc. etc. I'm so excited to know that my encounter with God was not a delusion. It was real. It just didn't fit in with what was being taught at that church. I had to leave.

  20. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    Yes Corey, I remember the day you came to my office and we talked about it. Seems like just yesterday.

  21. Gravatar
    Beth Saler

    Darin, in one of your comments, you wrote about a bit of depression, as a sister in Christ and someone that loves you, please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers. In love, is there any thing else I can do for you?

  22. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    Thanks Beth. I'm fine. I just go through it every now and then. I so appreciate you. You're great.

  23. Gravatar

    I'm new to this site. I have two questions. 1) Can believers that attend and/or are members of "institutional" churches be "abducted" believers? and 2)Do you believe the words of the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God? 2a) If so, how can Paul's analogy be "unfortunate"?

  24. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    Shawn I know many believers who attend Institutional Churches who are clearly "abducted believers." In fact about half of the people on this website still attend a local church. Question 2 - Because I believe that the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit I cannot believe "The words of the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God." Why? Because the bible I believe in doesn't make that statement about itself. That's just something Christians say today but it's not Scriptural. JESUS IS THE WORD. (I believe in Him also)

  25. Gravatar

    In most of the evangelical / charismatic churches that I attended over decades probably the most consistent phrase I heard was "The Bible says". Not Paul said or Jesus said or Mephibosheth said (try saying that one after a couple drinks). Sort of makes you think.

  26. Gravatar

    Robert I like your term "Jesus Jump Start"!!!!

  27. Gravatar

    Darin, thanks for answering my question. Let me try this a different way since I've used a term that the institutional Church uses. If the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit then aren't Paul's words which are in the Bible inspired and thus I'm back to my second question again; how can Paul's analogy be unfortunate if what he said is written in the Bible which is inspired by the Holy Spirit?

  28. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    Shawn, you and I are inspired by the Holy Spirit and we both say things that are unfortunate all the time don't we? The purpose of the Bible is to lead us to Christ; not to be infallible and perfect in every way. I think in a lot of ways we have traded God out for the Bible. We look at the bible today as though it is God Himself. Believe it or not, it's okay to wish Paul didn't say certain things or to disagree with other things He said. I know that's not a popular way of thinking in todays Christian world because we have been taught to view the Bible as though every word is straight from the mouth of God and therefore perfect and infallible. I think that many of the things Paul said about women is unfortunate, and I still think the New Testament is inspired by the Holy Spirit:-)

  29. Gravatar

    Oh yeah, he was an old patriach. I think he fought his attitudes, but still couldn't get rid off all the patriarchism. Jesus was quite different. Women loved Jesus, He had many women disciples. If I were a woman I wouldn't like Paul very much. :) He even wrote, the he thinks (thank God he emphasized it's his own opinion) that a woman is more blessed if she stays a virgin. I think that statements like this one are a source of many weird doctrines. Man, I'd like to know where Paul would be if Eve followed his opinion. Thank God for all the most blessed women that decided to become wifes and mothers. I actually believe a mother is more blessed than a virgin, because she sacrfices herself to the children. Am I inspired by the Holy Spirit, ladies? :)

  30. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    That's a great point Myso. Well put. It brings up a great question. What about when Paul specifically says "THIS IS NOT THE LORD" just before he gives his advise. Is that "The Word of God????" If it is, it's God telling us it's not God. Hummmmm now I have a head ace.

  31. Gravatar

    Shawn, I think many many things in the Bible have become sort of twisted over the years with all the translations and weird doctrines. Our translation states we should "hate our mother". Do you think a person who wakes up in the morning and spits in the face of his mother would be considered a good Christian? That's an unfortunate formulation and I kind of believe it's the Holy Spirit within me that dislikes what has become of the verse, although there's some nice meaning in not being stuck to your parents and finding your own freedom in life, but the way the verse is written can be and I believe it really is a source of many unloving doctrines in certain groups or particular life situations. "The letter kills, but Spirit gives life" - St. Pauls himself. And Spirit is Love.

  32. Gravatar

    Darin, seen RAINMAN? "Who's on first?" :D
    Aren't we Christians like Rainmen? :) Religion turns human beings with choice into Rainmen without it. And, yeah, we can memorize the whole phone numbers book (Bible?), but we're not able to choose for oursleves whether we wanna live with Tom Cruise or go back to the Institution. :) I hope you got this one..

  33. Gravatar
    Michael Creel

    And let's remember folks that Paul, speaking of those who insisted on pushing the O.T. law of circumcision, said "I wish they would go the whole way and cut themselves off!" Somehow, I think Paul was just as human as ourselves. So not everything he said was 100% spot-on (Oh, I know that is going to get some people's shorts in knots . . .)
    I love what Darin said; THE WORD is Jesus. Truth has a name; Jesus.
    Keep in mind that part of the Journey of following Jesus means learning to embrace paradox.
    Enjoy the mystery. And while it is an old saying, it is still a good one: Major in the major (themes) and minor in the minor (themes).

  34. Gravatar

    Darin, How do you know we are inspired by the Holy Spirit? What is the basis of truth?

  35. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    Shawn I'm sure you answer to that question will be, "The Bible." if it is your answer, then what you are saying is that almost 1,700 years after Christ, almost no Christians in the entire world ever knew God or knew that the Holy Spirit inspired them because the printing press had not been invented yet and they didn't have access to the Bible. My basis of truth is LOVE. God is love. I actually knew that BEFORE I read it in the Bible. I knew it all along, even when I was a child.

  36. Gravatar

    Exactly Darin. Even before i "become" christian. You see Shawn, is not only a new language, is a new understanding of ALL THINGS (a new heaven, catch it?). Everyone who loves belongs to God, because He is Love, no matter his "confesion" of faith. Because his doing, his life of love comes from LOVE Himself. From a knowing of God the Love. Can´t come from anywhere.

    And all of it is far beyond our complete understanding. Blessings to all my friends, my family.

  37. Gravatar

    By the way Darin, could you write about false and genuine Love? Is only a question that is suddenly break in my head. Love you brother

  38. Gravatar

    Miguel, C. S. Lewis wrote good things on Love. Although, he's too sophisticated sometimes. The Cosmic Trilogy is great. Perelandra is a great book. It's very much about what we were meant to be - beings who just enjoy life. I can't believe how many Christians lost it. We're supposed to fight for life to the fullest. Nobody believes that.

  39. Gravatar
    David Backus

    I loved his space trilogy. If Perelandra describes what we were meant to be, I think That Hideous Strength describes where we are now.

  40. Gravatar
    Jim K

    Wow, this has been some of the best discussions yet! I'm new to this, but the information sounds like it's been near me all my life- something very familiar about hearing this. I love it! I especially liked how Michael Creel explained his statements. Thanks Mike!

  41. Gravatar

    I think the answer is understanding what that faculty is that God breathed into Adam, is it not what Israel Houghton calls 'the God size void'? This is what informs us that not every teaching of the IC is beneficial and this is what gives credence to the message of the wild. I believe this to be the very faculty that made the message of Christ resonate with us. If we were just blank how would we respond positively to the message of Christ?

  42. Gravatar

    Thanks myso and David for the references i will looking for them. You are great. I also want to add the work of Gene Edwards "The Beginning". It points to this same direction.

  43. Gravatar

    Myso...why do you have to rate weather a woman who is a mother or a virgin is more blessed? I mean, there are women like me who did not chose to be virgin all their life, but circumstances happened that I still am. So am I less blessed just because there was no man comming my way till now and I did not have the chance to have a family? I guess we should not rate those things.

  44. Gravatar

    I feel isolated in Gordon, Nebraska.There is more Churches than bars in this town and I would way rather spend time with the people in the bars. My rebellion started about 6 months ago and it is very hard to find anybody to talk to about this "new" way of thinking. My husband left over 7 years ago and I went way deep into the religious stuff. But I can't stay there. I want to get back to where I was when I was a child. I was abused and God would hold me and love on me. I want his closeness again. I want to feel loved again and I'm refusing to be perfect. I want romance, someone who loves me! I want the romance novel and the passion that goes with it. I don't want it to bad or wrong anymore. I can tell my mind that God loves me. I can tell you in so many ways that he does, I can"t feel it.

  45. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    Jeannine, I really want to talk with you. If you're interested in connecting, you can email me at In the mean time I want you to read another blog article that might help you in your thinking. Here is a link to it.

  46. Gravatar

    Jeannine, there are a number of us who feel alone but we’ve found friends that we can relate to on Darin’s forum. I’d like to invite you to join us there. It’s a great group and I’ve found much encouragement and wisdom among the members. If you’re interested, there’s a button at the top of this page that you can click on and it’ll take you there.

  47. Gravatar

    Darin, I don't think you answered my question. I asked how do you know we are inspired by the Holy Spirit? May I tack on this question: How do you define your use of the word "inspired? And you are correct; if I was asked what is my basis of truth I'd say the Bible. But you put words in my mouth after that. I would not say that therefore almost no one for the past 1,700 years ever knew God. I'm not that old and I know God. And I don't think the printing press has any relevance to this discussion. Just google Dead Sea Scrolls and you'll see my point.

  48. Gravatar

    What I'm wondering is this, if there is no standard of truth then truth becomes relative. Using your term "unfortunate" a thief could say it is unfortunate that the bible says stealing is wrong and the one that was stolen from could determine otherwise. Who, then is to say who is correct?

  49. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    Shawn I think you missed the illustration of the printing press completely. When Jesus was asked what the most important thing was he said to "Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind and soul" and He said the second most important commandment is "like it". He said "Love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus then said, "ALL OF THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS STAND ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS." In other words, if you have love - you have EVERYTHING. If you love - you KNOW God. "The law and the prophets" is the ENTIRE Bible. All truth comes out of love. If you love, you don't need a law that says do not steal. Love doesn't steal. If you love, you don't need any point of reference to point you to truth. God is love. If you have love, you have God. Plain and simple.

  50. Gravatar
    Jim D

    I think that the people in Roswell could also recognize an alien by their pointy ears or extra fingers on their hand, or even by the dorky clothes they are wearing. I was wondering how could they identify abducted-believers? Maybe these believers could get a tattoo with the initials AB. But if you tattoo AB on your arm, someone might think that it is your initials or maybe your girlfriend’s initials. Also, you would all have to get the AB tattoo in the same place, let’s say on your right butt cheek. That way when you drive by an institutional church on a Sunday morning and moon them, when they see the AB on your butt as you go by, they’ll say “hey, there goes an abducted believer”. Just a thought, and people don't have to do it if it seems like a bad idea.
    Jim D

  51. Gravatar

    Sarah, I didn't want to say a mother is more than a virgin or that a virgin is more than a mother. To say that a woman that doesn't have kids is less blessed than the one who has was the last thing on my mind and I DON'T believe it. My post was actually a reaction on St. Pauls ideas. He compared. He wrote he thinks a virgin is more blessed. Read it in Corinthians or wherever it is. I just wanted to express that I disagree with him. And just like you said, noone has the right to compare. God blesses us whoever we are. I don't like some Pauls ideas on women and I'm definitely on your side, Sarah.

  52. Gravatar

    Hi Darin,
    I have recently read a book by Louis Charles called "Jesus Religion", which he portrays as "a critical examination of Christian insanity." If you're curious but not willing to invest in a copy of the book you can get a taste of it by visiting his website at,
    I liked your statements, "God is love. If you have love, you have God. Plain and simple." I would only add to them that until we embrace this truth as our very own, right now, we will continue to 'think' we are victims in this world.

  53. Gravatar
    greg sallee

    the revelation in the gospel that many church leaders and church goers miss, I think, is the fact that all of mankind was crucified in Christs death, and all of mankind was resurrected in His resurrection.(2 cor5:19, Hosea 6:2)

    You are right, Darin, when you say i knew God was love all along because all of us have our origin in Him.

    A new species was born when Jesus was raised from the dead. A new creation that carries the very life of God and His being inside. When the church talks about the sinfulness of man, and how man doesnt measure up to the standard of God, the message is actually contradicts the finished work of Jesus Christ and the glory that follows His accomplishment. That glory has been given to us for as He is so are we in this world- not the world to come- we are like Him

  54. Gravatar
    Anne Lepley

    You guys are so far off base it isn't funny.

  55. Gravatar

    When you first come to understand the reality of a love relationship with God you have a lot to understand and a whole lot to unlearn. He knows that and I'm sure He'll walk me through it but in the meantime I'm sure I'll sometimes sound uncertain, use the wrong language, ask the wrong questions as if I'm off base altogether and I'll admit it (do I dare?) even be a little afraid, but at those times His love comes crashing in and He is gloriously there !!!!

  56. Gravatar

    I don't know whether to laugh or cry about those who post here out of nothing but spite because we have grown sick and weary of the IC and because we aren't backing up every thought and comment with a verse from the bible. If any of these people would investigate, they would find that almost every one of us spent many years in IC, we tried to do all the "right" things, we wouldn't make a move or decision of any sort unless something in the bible spoke directly to it or unless we received a "word" from somebody more "spiritual" than we are. Most of us were wonderful church members and not a one of us understood what God really wanted us to do: Love God, Love Others. We are not godless heathens who just stumbled on this website and are following heresy. For the most part, we are Christians who are truthful enough to admit that the IC today does nothing but leave us empty, guilty, and spiritually dead. I believe we have all truly been led here.

  57. Gravatar

    I read this article at just the right moment and it explained exactly what happened to me. I looked for love and acceptance in all the wrong places - the institutionalized church. Try as I may, I could never seem to fit into their box. I was labelled, mistrusted, and after I left, shunned. What a relief to know that's OK. I left after I looked across the congregation and asked myself "Where's Jesus?" The Lord that I knew deep down in my heart and soul... who enjoyed a cup of coffee with me in the morning... who smiled with me in my flower garden... who surprised me with his little every-day things that showed me he was my friend... who sang along with me on the mountain top when I went camping... who held my trembling soul when grief or distress was dealt as my hand in life... who somehow spoke hope into my darkest night - wasn't in their rigid, square, locked-tight box.
    I'm FREE!

  58. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    very well put Karin. VERY well put!

  59. Gravatar

    a life of doing and doing or being and being, I'll take the latter, but with the latter the former takes shape. Looks like fruit to me. peace

  60. Gravatar
    Ray in NZ

    Love this conversation. Yeah, when I started looking into 'church history' via a Gene Edwards book, entitled 'REVOLUTION', this epiphany also struck me.

    Until Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press in 1450, believers could not 'know God' by reading their Bible every day. Most of them were illiterate anyway. In fact, few believers would have had THEIR OWN BIBLE until the last 100 years or so. Therefore, it is probable that 'pray & read your Bible every day' is a relatively recent, and man-made, cliche.

    Pity the poor soul who is blind, and cannot read!

  61. Gravatar

    Pretty bad when you don't belong to either abducted or non-abducted. How long can a person survive belonging no-where?

  62. Gravatar
    Darin Hufford

    You belong. I know you belong. No one can come up with the things you come up with if you didn't belong.

  63. Gravatar

    Thank you Darin. That meant so much to me.

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