Baptism with Fire

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henribecquerel
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Baptism with Fire

Post by henribecquerel »

Dear all
In the Gospel of Matthew (Chapter 3) Jesus says:
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
So what is the 'Baptism with Fire'? Is it simply the purification by the Holy Spirit after we come to faith or is it something else? There would seem to be a water baptism, a baptism with the Holy Spirit and a baptism with fire.
Love
Adrian
non dubitare, 'don't worry'
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Ann Onymous
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by Ann Onymous »

Ive never really thought about it before. Let me think a while and I'll get back to you!
“But you can’t access God through the intellect, It’s got to be through the heart. It’s been my experience that when you intellectualize the divine, you’re gonna get your a$$ kicked.” - Billy Corgan
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ObeyGiant
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by ObeyGiant »

Could it be hell?

I presume it could be whatever you feel you're most comfortable with, seeing as how the monks didn't include a Glossary of Terms.
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Ann Onymous
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by Ann Onymous »

Welcome, Obey Giant. Fill out a profile so we can get to know you a little better.

Could you explain your thoughts on why it would be "hell"? Like hell on earth? Curious how you came to that conclusion...
“But you can’t access God through the intellect, It’s got to be through the heart. It’s been my experience that when you intellectualize the divine, you’re gonna get your a$$ kicked.” - Billy Corgan
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ObeyGiant
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by ObeyGiant »

Maybe the righteous are baptized by the Holy Spirit and the unrighteous will receive the "baptism of fire" as in the lake of fire.
John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11-12) wrote:He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
In the full passage, it's clear to me that fire is referenced as the judgment of sinners, so I was throwing it out there to see what others may think. This is simply a suggestion. I have never read the bible all the way through and am no scholar.
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Ann Onymous
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by Ann Onymous »

Thats an interesting thought...and its no big deal, I'm no scholar either. ;)

But yeah, I do see what you're saying, in the context of the verse. Sometimes being raised in a super religious setting will give you a doctrinal "interpretation" to the scripture, rather than clarity.

I'm gonna think about it for a while. Thanks for sharing :)
“But you can’t access God through the intellect, It’s got to be through the heart. It’s been my experience that when you intellectualize the divine, you’re gonna get your a$$ kicked.” - Billy Corgan
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Ann Onymous
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by Ann Onymous »

ok....

I *think that what the baptism of fire is that which takes the "chaff" out of your life. Whatever version you used, Obey Giant, made more sense to me. But it seems like he is saying that the "fire" will "burn" the undesirable parts out of you. And I get there because the first part of the scripture is "personal" that is, it addresses "you".

Hmm. Maybe I will have to think on this a little more :)
“But you can’t access God through the intellect, It’s got to be through the heart. It’s been my experience that when you intellectualize the divine, you’re gonna get your a$$ kicked.” - Billy Corgan
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ObeyGiant
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by ObeyGiant »

The version I used was the NIV. I googled it and think I've found a pretty good page that lays it all out.
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Ann Onymous
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by Ann Onymous »

Thanks for the link. When I have a bit of down time, I will read it more in depth. (I just skimmed it this time).

As much as we need commentary and explanation, sometimes I get lost in the millions of interpretations. Do you ever have that problem?
“But you can’t access God through the intellect, It’s got to be through the heart. It’s been my experience that when you intellectualize the divine, you’re gonna get your a$$ kicked.” - Billy Corgan
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henribecquerel
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by henribecquerel »

Hi
Thank you for this. It would therefore seem that "The baptism with fire" is referring to the judging and the cleansing of those who would enter the kingdom of Jesus, and as prophesied in Malachi 3.
Love
Adrian
non dubitare, 'don't worry'
1stJim 4:10
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by 1stJim 4:10 »

As Darin said in his article "How Do We Know We're Right?" -

"...people will always hear what they want to hear. They will interpret the Bible to mean whatever it is that they want it to mean. They will believe what they want to believe and in the end, they will do what they want to do. Whatever point a person wants to make, whether right or wrong, they will find scriptures to support it. There are scriptures that support a loving God who will never leave His children and there are scriptures that support an angry God who will."

If you want to believe that the 'baptism with fire' will burn up the 'unrighteous' (unbelievers) you will do so. If you want to believe that the 'baptism with fire' is part of only a Christian's complete baptism by the Holy Spirit you will do so. If you want to believe that the 'baptism with fire' refers to the cleansing of sin from all people, or only from the 'righteous' (believers), you will do so.

God has provided scriptures that will reveal whatever is in your heart. The question really is though, "what is in Christ's heart?" - and does yours reflect His?

"The Word of God is a person. When you read it do you see words, or do you see Him?"
Jim - trusting Him completely, no matter what the "Christians" may tell me
Little Vickers
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by Little Vickers »

henribecquerel wrote:Dear all
In the Gospel of Matthew (Chapter 3) Jesus says:
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
So what is the 'Baptism with Fire'? Is it simply the purification by the Holy Spirit after we come to faith or is it something else? There would seem to be a water baptism, a baptism with the Holy Spirit and a baptism with fire.
Love
Adrian

Just to let you all know that I asked Darin what he thinks this means. I will let you know if he answers me. I couldn't quite come up with an answer myself. Little Vickers
pneuma
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Re: Baptism with Fire

Post by pneuma »

I also have a question in this regard: When is a christian Baptized in the Spirit, Can we say all christians have the HolySpirit living inside them. The stories in the book of acts seems to contradict what I think paul is saying in the verses below and I don't even know which to believe since it is the same bible.

Acts 8:15-17 (KJV) Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Romans 8:9 (KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, HE IS NONE OF HIS.

1 Corinthians 12:3 (KJV) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Thanks for your anticipated response which means a lot to me at this stage of my life.
ianstephenson
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