The Heart of the Matter

Share your experiences learning to live "In the Wild"
Jac
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by Jac »

Thanks so much for your kindness and encouragement everyone. I drafted a long reply outlining some of my life story. I don't know if I will post it though. It looks too much like complaining (I tried to write "w-h-i-n-g-i-n-g" but the spell check kept changing it to "wringing" lol!) and feeling sorry for myself!
Having a lot of mental illness in the family and many fractured and difficult relationships is very isolating and discouraging. Thankyou folks for being there.
Noblemen
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by Noblemen »

teresap wrote:Hi Jac,
What a horrible time you are having. . . . I'm just glad that you are able to say how you are really feeling and I' m sure no one will be offended by your post, there's nothing offensive in it.
You have people rooting and praying for you and sometimes we are just unable to carry the problems by ourselves so we're here for you.
As always . . much love . . Teresa X
Yea teresa we are a body and when someone hurts we all hurt, when one rejoices we all rejoice.
Jac
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by Jac »

Thanks everyone for your kindness and encouragement.
Last edited by Jac on Thu May 05, 2016 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
ianstephenson
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Post by ianstephenson »

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eagle77
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by eagle77 »

Jac, thank you so much for writing about your experiences. I don't think anything is wrong with you - with all that you have endured, and I am amazed at your strength and your ability to love and care for others. You have not had an easy life, but man, you are a lot stronger than what you think. Most people would not be able to handle all of this as well as you have.

I think a large part of my disillusionment and perhaps yours as being a Christian is that we have been fed so many lies and false promises by church leadership. We've been told if you be part of my organization, I will protect you and as long as you allow ME to govern your relationship with God -everything is going to work out. Your prayers will be answered, you will be happy, you will be healed, you will be prosperous, and above all us, following me means that you are covered in God's eyes. But it is a promise no human can make. The false promises of bliss is what often lures believers in. When things don't work out, the very same ones who gave you the false promises are quick to blame you. It's the only way to save face, because they know they can not maintain the false promises they initially told you. Now it's your fault - you're not praying enough. You are not tithing. You most have some sort of unconfessed sin. You have some open door. On and on it goes, especially within the charismatic circles. But I know for me, for years I blamed myself for so much, because I thought somehow I was not good enough. I was not doing enough. Yeah, people can preach grace, but it means little when you throw law in the mix.

There are some hard times that I've looked back on life, and I do believe it made me stronger. In those times, I do feel God had a role or purpose for that. But I have had a great deal happen to me, that I can not see where it benefit me, in any shape or fashion. For me, I have had bad luck all my life - so much so, that people have commented on it throughout the years. From classmates, coworkers, friends, etc. - so many have marveled at how rotten my luck is - just strange, atypical stuff. So I'm writing all this, only to say, I think I understand how you feel. What sucks, and I even have trouble now accepting this, is that God will not force people to do anything. A person can be as rotten as hell, and get away with it for years. I say for years, because whether someone believes in God or not, I think that kind of stuff eventually will catch up to a person. I personally believe God does weep for us at times.
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free2behis
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by free2behis »

My opinion...

the heart is the seat of one's intentions, the place from which our decisions flow. That is who you truly are, your heart.
Meditating and reflecting on the experience of having a mind...
Noblemen
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by Noblemen »

That's why I keep saying what I say, is there no rhyme or reason in the cross where he had his guts ripped out of his back, not to sound to extreme but it was extreme.
That's what kept me searching, digging, clawing. There had to be a reason, more than just my sin because as a believer I was going through more hell than I did as a good old fashioned sinner, anyone want to match sin, no I don't either, you don't want to hear about the BS I did, I went through, things that happened to me, it wasn't pretty.
I grew up ganging and banging in the seventies and eighties in SoCal.
There had to be something he wanted and there was. I'm here telling you that there is something he wants and until he gets what he created all things for, it doesn't stop.
Suffering is built into the schoolhouse, in its design to bring forth Christ, nothing like a good dose of the world to bring me to Christ.
And it doesn't stop there, nothing like a good dose of suffering in this world to bring me to see him as my life.
You can blame religion all you want does no good, what he has done and wants is put in plain writen English in black and white and we have no excuses.
He expects me to read and when I read allow the Holy Spirit to teach me.
brettact2
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by brettact2 »

I find it interesting how much of our life is lived automatically, involuntary, unconsciously. From the womb through most of being a teenager, until we are thoroughly schooled in our culture's Greek philosophical approach towards life of using information to gain understanding. But before that we just lived, experienced, and understood what was going on as we were mentored by our adults. I learned that transitions to being mentored by God. Learning to just question & believe what we hear as we experience. I've found analyzing to death is chaos, but having a hearing heart brings great peace & understanding. It seems like creation teaches us how to be the new creation - just have enough for now. We breathe for a few seconds at a time, we eat for a few hours at a time, we sleep for one day at a time... As we lay this foundation as our way of being, new possibilities in our walk with God open up, for other interesting ways of knowing.
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teresap
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by teresap »

I'm not a fan of suffering and I don't see it as a tool that God uses to bring us to him. I know that suffering can strip away the unimportant things in our life and bring us to the real us but I still believe that God draws us to himself by love alone and all that it involves. I think that God is able to reach out to us in spite of suffering not because of it. Having our eyes opened is what will draw us to God, when we see Him for who he is.
Suffering causes fear, dismay, anguish but most of all a lack of trust. How can you trust someone who you think can cause circumstances to change in a heartbeat to something quite horrible and painful ?I know I can't. For me to be able to trust God I have to know that I can trust Him and rely upon completely and no I don't mean a God who causes everything to work out perfectly all the time but rather that I can trust that He will always love me and always hold my hand in whatever situation I find myself, even if those circumstance cause me to be angry with Him or turn my back on Him. I think that sometimes I've had to do that in order for Him to convince me that nothing will ever be able to stop Him loving me.
Life is so hard and Jac you have had it so much harder than a lot of us yet as Eagle77 has said I don't think you realise just how strong you have been. You are not responsible for other people's actions or decisions, each one of us only has a limited effect on what other people do, it's up to them, they do what they do.
This is the one time that I would like to be able to meet up with people, there's a strength in physical contact that I can't find in the written word and whilst physically you are alone Jac in reality we are standing with you.
Love Teresa x
If you ask God a question be prepared for him to lead you (very gently) outside of your comfort zone.
Jac
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by Jac »

Thanks again folks for your patience and kindness. I am really grateful for your love. I am going through a strange time at the moment. I am not sure why but I have found myself revisiting happenings in the past and also more recent experiences. I wonder if my thinking and my beliefs have changed so much that I need to re-examine things in new light. It is however very painful at times.
I have a tape recording of my brother's memorial service (and a machine that would still play it after over forty years!) My mother didn't allow friends to go to the graveside funeral, but the church did a memorial service (she would have nothing to do with that). Listening now I feel totally disconnected from that thinking of that time. There was hard line preaching (the service basically became a crusade service). There was teaching that what happened was for good if it caused someone to get right with God or turned them away from a lost eternity, the implication being watch out or you might die tomorrow or even today, or God will kill a friend or loved one to get your attention. I don't think now that God is in the business of fear tactics. He is in the business of love. My brother had gone for counselling the night before with someone who pointed out to him that his frustration with how he was being badly treated by some was his OWN bitterness and bad attitude. Just as well he prayed for forgiveness for it! He was extremely intelligent and one preacher said that was his undoing! All the bible verses were old king James version and the praying was in thees and thous but that was the least of my discomfort.
I remember struggling with why God couldn't influence people without allowing the death of the only member of my family speaking to me at the time. I couldn't talk to anyone about my confusion. It was like how I had agonised over anti-catholic teaching that Catholics were lost (so my dear dad was in hell unless he happened to hear a gospel message and "pray the prayer" or "ask Jesus into his heart" or "accept Jesus as his own personal saviour" without anyone knowing). I no longer believe that those expressions were really what being a believer means. We know Him if we love and we love Him if we know Him. There is a bible verse for that but I won't quote it because I am no longer into "back-up verse theology". I believe now my Dad knew God simply because he loved. And God loved him and my brother immensely. My brother was not just (not in the least bit) a tool so God could frighten people with his death. I actually believe he was very troubled and deliberately rode his motorcycle into that truck, though I was never aware of anyone else thinking that way. (The truck driver could not understand why he rode on the wrong side of the road for some distance and made no effort to swerve or avoid the collision. The truck driver was not hurt.) I did not discuss that with anyone then.
I also feel that I did not grieve properly then because I thought I had to be a "testimony" to others of God's comfort. Another example of thinking that God just "uses" us one way or another. We do not love people when we use them. I was not really comforted, but I guess it would be said that I "didn't let Him" or "didn't have enough faith".
I do not believe that God causes, allows or uses pain and suffering and tragedy for any ultimate purpose. It is the condition of the world and He weeps over those things with me, just as He rejoices with me in what is good and right with the world. (If suffering is to teach me something I am a slow learner! If suffering is to teach me to trust him, it is very strange, because it would be like expecting someone I had severely hurt to learn from that to trust me! Trust comes from knowing forgiveness and compassion and love; God does not say He will hurt me until I trust Him. I trust Him because He loves and weeps with me when I hurt.)
I am getting more and more wordy aren't I?
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teresap
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Re: The Heart of the Matter

Post by teresap »

If suffering is to teach me something I am a slow learner! If suffering is to teach me to trust him, it is very strange, because it would be like expecting someone I had severely hurt to learn from that to trust me! Trust comes from knowing forgiveness and compassion and love; God does not say He will hurt me until I trust Him. I trust Him because He loves and weeps with me when I hurt.
This is the way I see things Jac. and from what you've written today I get the sense that at last you are beginning to see things more clearly, I really hope so but even if it's not today I really do believe that you will reach an understanding or peace at some point in the very near future.

Much love, Teresa x
If you ask God a question be prepared for him to lead you (very gently) outside of your comfort zone.
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