"Trump 2016"

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Mark
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"Trump 2016"

Post by Mark »

Hi folks.

Haven't posted in a while. The inactivity here was getting a little depressing so I have just been doing my thing and clearing my head.
Which has been so hard. The insanity that's going on in the culture with the elections, the relentless and brazen propaganda, the escalation of racial tensions and "identity politics", driven by increasingly shrill and confrontational "social justice warriors" (SJW's) and the Left. The "migrant crisis", "Make America Mexico Again", Trans bathrooms, and, of course, the full-on Globalist attack on Trump. And now the shootings..ugh.

I figured that perhaps enough was happening to test our spirits and/or faith (or even just our peace of mind) that I would start a general thread and see where it goes.
Noblemen
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Noblemen »

I better turn my TV on, kidding bad joke. Yes we have a real hotbed of total chaos it seems.
I'm sure that the Lord will have some good come from all this, that's what I keep telling myself anyway. And I truly believe He will, He put it altogether so we have to trust He will work it out. Nice to see you in here, I'm Mike by the way.
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AidaC
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by AidaC »

When I think about where this nation is heading, it can get scary. Today was one of those days. Someone told me that the public schools where I live will now allow everyone to use whatever bathroom they want. Since I have two granddaughters in the public school system, I could feel fear start to set in. I hope it's just a rumor but I had to calm myself by reminding myself that although some may trust in chariots and some in horses, it's my choice to trust in God and God alone.

Although I've made a choice as to which candidate I prefer, I don't believe it'll be possible to turn things around quickly. Because of what's been unleashed in this nation, it won't be easy to bring order into the chaos. I guess we'll just have to hunker down in God and wait it out because I believe darker days are still ahead.

It has been a little quiet here lately but I'm glad to see you back here, Mark. Hope you'll stick around for a while. I always enjoy reading what you have to say.
"Smell the aroma of your union with Christ" - Andrew Farley
Jac
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Jac »

While we are distracted by polarisation on "gender" issues I wonder what we are not noticing that we are meant to not notice, or missing what we are meant to miss. Surely toilet cubicles can built to give privacy to whoever, but allow for supervision. Little boys always risked assault in male toilets Little girls always risked assault behind the toilets or in poorly supervised places. What is new to be afraid of?

I guess I don't really understand American politics. So I can't really comment too much. I do know though who I would not vote for if I was American, judging from what I have heard.

Seriously though I have been disturbed by the fearmongering that is so common in Western countries. While we are made to fear gays, migrants, certain religions etc we become very vulnerable to manipulation. (It is what Hitler did against Jews and other minorities so that the German people backed wholesale murder. Hitler did not kill on his own. In fact I heard he never visited an extermination or concentration camp. The hatred of Jews was also preached by Christians as far back as Martin Luther).

Hatred and persecution of Christians has occurred the same way over the centuries.

That is not to say fearmongering is not necessarily based on bad things that have really happened. That is the scary thing!! But our reaction to evil can also be evil and can bring about more evil. Now I am talking in circles? By taking it out on people who are innocent, innocent people can be provoked into becoming aggressors or siding with the original aggressors when they otherwise would not have done so. More circles?

I don't believe God causes evil to bring "good" out of it. People choose to do evil things and often many suffer the consequences. I believe God weeps with us when innocents suffer at the hands of evil people. He has given people free will and that is just how it is. He will not revoke that (otherwise He would have revoked it in the garden before the catastrophe! ) unless you believe God planned for sin to enter the world so He could bring good out of it?

I am an oldie so I can remember when single mothers were the target of religious people. Also divorced people. (Even women drivers ☺️) Now it is gays. One day it will move on to some other group. We all have to have someone to blame for the imminent collapse of societies constructed on self-interest, greed, self-righteousness and, dare I say it, exclusion and hate.

While people in my country are on about gay rights (from either side of the argument) It is easier to ignore the third world conditions in which most of our indigenous people live. My country is guilty of much evil too.
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Noblemen »

Chin up and press on I suppose, it's really getting wild. But I also believe that balance will come to keep it all going and rocking along until He is done with this world and has worked out His plan, the reason He created all things for.
Seems to work like that anyway, evil will sway one way and the good sways back.
As long as the Lord is in control, we'll be ok.
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AidaC
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by AidaC »

Noblemen wrote:Chin up and press on I suppose, it's really getting wild. But I also believe that balance will come to keep it all going and rocking along until He is done with this world and has worked out His plan, the reason He created all things for.
Seems to work like that anyway, evil will sway one way and the good sways back.
As long as the Lord is in control, we'll be ok.
Great post! As I've been thinking about what's going on in my country, I see it as a pendulum. Like a pendulum, nature is continually trying to find a balance and, when things get out of balance, it will go to the opposite extreme trying to find that balance. Eventually, a pendulum will find balance and come to the middle but it is a process. Although things may be chaotic here, I think we have to be patient and look to see what God is doing and join him there. I believe we're called to live peaceful lives in the midst of what's happening and I don't think it's a good idea to add to the chaos and fear as I see happening on Facebook.
"Smell the aroma of your union with Christ" - Andrew Farley
Jac
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Jac »

The pendulum comparison is very interesting.

I just can't just accept "God will work it out in the end" as the answer.. Where does that leave the casualties along the way? If God gets a good result to eventually work out for some people in some time and place, where does that leave all the murdered, tortured bereaved etc along the way?

I think of the little 21 month old boy recently beaten and tortured over a long time to eventually die of horrific injuries that he had suffered at least a week before he died without medical attention. I am sure God did not "allow" that for some "good" to come out if it. It is all bad and I think even God thinks so too.

I am really not so sure of God's controlling all things. Not because He isn't all powerful, but for some other compelling reason only He understands. Otherwise the "bad guys" can say "God made me do it for a purpose". I suspect God leaves things to people's choice whether they choose right or wrong, just like He left them to choose in the garden. The suffering that happens as a result makes Him weep too.

We are not just like game pieces on some immense chessboard that God manipulates. We are not robots. We have to take responsibility for what we make of the world we have been given, whether through our own actions, or our reactions to the actions of others. Maybe that is "the great plan".
Mark
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Mark »

Hi there,
Thanks everyone for chiming in, interesting comments all.
It may not come as a surprise to some but I am of the firm belief that this is all happening on purpose, in a move towards dissolving borders, establishing centralized global control, population and economic class redistribution and forcefully breaking down the independence, competition and mistrust of the state that "family values" and Western/Christian culture has been built upon.
It's odd in a way coming from me because I was a liberal/leftist/SJW most of my life. I spent years duking it out online with evangelicals about homophobia and what I felt was a destructively simplistic view of Islam (as an enemy) and other religions as being wrong or bad (and a few other subjects).
I didn't start seeing Liberalism as a corrosive social force until around 2008 or thereabouts -after a G20 riot in my city. I naturally sided with the protestors but I became fixated on understanding what I witnessed, and trying to get my head around global power, "great recessions", militarized police etc - and in researching these things I discovered that the most illuminating, hard hitting, politically and economically coherent and well-researched information was coming largely from the "right". It took a while for me to make the full and probably irreversible shift to a sort of Libertarian/center-right outlook.

What seems to be more in our faces right now is how the Left is eerily championing - with breathtaking specificity -using aggression, violence, publc shaming and name calling - *absolutely everything* that helps push through and make a "virtue" out of the "Globalist" agendas (that I listed at the top of this post). The erosion of safety that comes from undetectable radicals mixing with "migrants", the censorship of public dissent - reinforced with a huge helping of SJW's calling people fascist, racists and "islamophobes" if they object, while women are getting assaulted almost daily and chaos ensues in quiet beautiful places all over Europe. The erosion of personal privacy - right up to and including public washrooms. The brazen promotion of "open boarders" - which the Left defends with violent protests and accusations of racism and xenophobia, but which is being driven by corporate donors wanting cheap labor, not caring what happens to vast swathes of increasingly over-educated and unemployable citizens. And of course Black Lives Matter and the endorsement of them from the highest places of power in government, media and education, no matter what they do - setting back race-relations to an almost pre-Civil Rights era hatred. In Europe the Left and the SJW's were even fighting on behalf of the "remain"/EU agenda, using the same accusations and violent "protests".

Its ALL being pushed through, mainly by unelected bureaucrats, "experts", academia and technocrats who pull the strings, and brainwashed/weaponized students and hipsters acting like hysterical and unstable thugs.

It's almost impossible for me to see this as organic cultural change and normal or natural pendulum activity. It's gnawing at my guts like never before because I can smell (artifical or engineered) revolution (like the so-called Arab Spring), civil war and anarchy coming. This sort of scenario is something I used to feel was 10-20 years off with plenty of time to turn it around. But it's accelerating exponentially it seems.
Jac
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Jac »

What are SJW s? I am pretty ignorant about the whole left versus right thing. I see both sides using the same kind of rhetoric and tactics to push their agendas which all lack compassion and truth and work on fear and manipulation. Sorry for being oversiimplistiic!

If evil can infect both sides it has got to win!

Nations bases on "christian" morals were murderous, self motivated and greedy (towards indigenous people for example). Righteousness meant self-righteousness and supremacy.

Any civilisation where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer will never last. (There have been many). I don't believe that the poor could be rich in Western countries if they just worked harder; that is just how many soothe their consciouses for ignoring the Lazarus sitting at their gate.

The Romans blamed the Christians and persecuted them, various "christian" religious viewpoints have blamed and persecuted each other, factions in Islam blame and persecute each other and on it goes.

So what is the best way forward? I have absolutely no idea! But blaming gender issues, other religions and other sidetracks will not substitute for love, compassion and truth.
Mark
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Mark »

SJW's = "Social Justice Warriors", a prejorative for shrill, hysterical "activists" who accuse everybody of everything.

To your point, people who are getting fixated on the individual issues of the day (with more and more "urgent" social changes being pushed through so quickly that people can't keep up, that just happen to provoke and antagonize the right and keep society divided and on edge) are missing the bigger picture (at least as I and thankfully a growing number of others see it) - Which I outlined (probably at too much length in my previous post) and will spare everyone the repetition.
The issues arent right vs left. Its a global economic and cultural restructuring which will completely transform society as we know it and which just happens to be using the radical left to mainstream it through social pressure and shaming.
Jac
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Jac »

Mark wrote:SJW's = "Social Justice Warriors", a prejorative for shrill, hysterical "activists" who accuse everybody of everything.
.
People who use the pejorative and it's associated description to deride a whole group of people with certain views who may or may not have a case for genuine social reform are doing exactly what they accuse the so called SJW's of doing, as far as I can see. I guess we all do it in some way or other.

Every country (including America) needs social reform in some shape or form. There are always the poor, the disadvantaged the powerless (how long have ghettos existed?) there are always those who judge others and put themselves above others for one reason or other (religious, ideologist, race, education, financial success,
culture and so on). I tend to think that while campaigning for certain limited values (either side) the whole issues of compassion and love of others and kindness and humility and gentleness and unbiased truth can be completely lost. And that is our greatest loss.
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by eagle77 »

Jac wrote:People who use the pejorative and it's associated description to deride a whole group of people with certain views who may or may not have a case for genuine social reform are doing exactly what they accuse the so called SJW's of doing, as far as I can see. I guess we all do it in some way or other.

Every country (including America) needs social reform in some shape or form. There are always the poor, the disadvantaged the powerless (how long have ghettos existed?) there are always those who judge others and put themselves above others for one reason or other (religious, ideologist, race, education, financial success,
culture and so on). I tend to think that while campaigning for certain limited values (either side) the whole issues of compassion and love of others and kindness and humility and gentleness and unbiased truth can be completely lost. And that is our greatest loss.
I agree - well said.
Mark
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Mark »

Well, I'm not sure if you have been monitoring the developments I and many, many others have. It's gotten to the point where now most comedians wont play colleges anymore and any speaker without a very rigid adherence to PC talking points and vocabulary gets "shut down" by "protestors" and even essays and papers written by *Liberal* academics and published in Liberal venues like the Atlantic are proliferating that are starting to express fear of whats happening and worry that a monster has been created in the vacuum of one-sided Liberalism that has dominated the education and college/university system for decades. Their heavily radicalized offspring have started to turn on their own and ruin peoples carreers for the slightest "microagression" (look it up)- and are getting literally violent. And believe me, if they can't find a real instance of "hate", "fascism" and "intollerance" to make a fuss about, they will make one up. There have been hundreds of such cases in the last few years alone. The media always leads with such unverified stories as facts untill they get forced to retract (which they bury as quickly as possible).

The net result is that institutions that are needed for society to function for *everyone* end up falling overthemselves trying to avoid getting attacked and labelled. The biggest casualty is freedom of though and speech and the exchange of ideas. Ironically, this may help SJW's in the short term, but the real beneficiaries and vested interests is such a chilling effect are people that do NOT have their best interests at heart.

I am speaking in and referring to specifics (the news stories the media leads with everyday) and a phenomenon that tearing America and Europe apart, and you are countering with generalities which no person with a heart would disagree with. Which is fine - I appreciate your input either way.
But As I've been trying to get across, I was such a leftist/activist person for most of my life. I still move in many of the same circles I did. Beyond this I won't elaborate on my lefty/minority/lgbt-positive credentials, but...
A change HAS happened, in the mentality, tactics, viciousness, disruptiveness, and a breathtaking assault on free speech - manifesting as these "SJW's" - and the the genuine concern for such social issues that most decent people have - has been hijacked by a generation of frighteningky illiberal radical leftists. Revolutionaries. Cop killers. White haters (and I'm not talking about honest reflection of the history of Western imperialism, slavery, segregation and so on, which most people are capable of). I'm talking about people who want to destroy everything Western civilization has created - without a clue what to do once they get it (or about who is really driving this cataclysm) - and delight in the downfall and suffering of everday Whites and Christians generally.

You don't, obviously, have to agree with or even like what I'm saying. But this stuff (and the globalism stuff I have mentioned) is real and why Trump and Brexit are happening.

I don't know why, but while I didn't expect full agreement, I also didn't anticipate having to explain or defend this stuff quite so much and thought a few people would also chime in that don't appear to be coming around anymore.

Sorry to bring my bad vibes in here.
Jac
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by Jac »

No bad vibes meant at all. I just see extremism on both sides of the fence as unproductive.

My experiences and understanding are not all encompassing. No one can know everything. I am speaking for all oppressed and downtrodden regardless of skin colour, or nationality etc. I am not excluding down trodden whites.

However I do not think of myself as hysterical, shrill or a false accuser. I do have evidence regarding the particular people I feel for. (I lived amongst them and saw the ill-treatment first hand). Having seen that, I know that at least some who are accused of lying may not be lying at all. As far as activist goes I have long lamented my own lack of activity!

I think many whites and white "christians" are afraid because we have long been so privileged and the people we have ignored or been dismissive toward are not going to lie down and take it. Civilisations that ignore the "Lazarus" at the gate can expect collapse. It has happened over and over down the centuries. The cycle continues. Of course some group or other has to be blamed and it is seldom ourselves (again from either side of the fence). For freedom of speech and thought to be real it has to be there for all, not just those from one side of the argument.

I really did not mean to upset anyone. Just how I see it from my little corner of the world.
eagle77
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Re: "Trump 2016"

Post by eagle77 »

Mark, no bad vibes here - but I do agree with what Jac said. I probably should had not posted a comment, because I'm not doing well physically, and not up to discussing in depth at this time. As an African American, my perspective is completely different than yours. Actually, I am a mix bag of Native American, white, and black. I don't like racism on either side - white, black, yellow, whatever. When I posted, I just wanted to quickly note I agreed with what Jac said. In retrospect, I can see where my comment may had seemed abrupt and might had been taken the wrong way. Although I disagree with what you are saying, I truly mean no disrespect or animus towards you.
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