Music Is It Neutral

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WildernessWillie
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Music Is It Neutral

Post by WildernessWillie »

When I first entered the church world some twenty years ago music was categorized into two basic camps: sacred and secular. For many years that was my thinking. In recent months I have read on more than one occasion comments from authors who were writing concerning things of faith that there is no such thing as music being either sacred or secular, but it is considered neutral. While I must admit most of the music I listened to prior to Jesus was very un-Christian at best, some of it could maybe be considered neutral. Recently I’ve been re-thinking a lot of what I was taught in the IC, and while I’m not ready to/or going to listen to Iron Maiden sing Mark of the Beast I was pondering how much of the music out there could be considered neutral and not harmful to a follower of Christ. So I pose the question to you my brothers and sisters. Is music neutral? Or should music be divided into sacred and secular camps? Or is there another thought concerning music?
“We were never supposed to allow the world (culture or society) to call the shots for the church! In fact, the two should be in direct conflict with each other.” Milt Rodriguez
dward
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by dward »

interesting, I would say that it depends on your faith, your fears, and your personality. :D

I'm at a point where I have no music left to listen too because I recently discovered the psychological effects on me of A=440 standard tuning and even Christians use it, rather than a Pythagorean tuning of A=432 or some other note (which is heaven to me!).

I think all music today at least from a psychological and physiological perspective is NOT good(yes that includes classical). I know what a lot of the "sold out" bands are alluding too in their lyrics and I hate it, though that doesn't stop me from listening.

Christian music, I don't consider music but noise with sappy lyrics, there is no artistry to it for several reasons but the main one is that all they talk about is Jesus. Which is fine... if your entire life, all your work and all your experience is about Jesus, and you relate to people in no other way. Uh, but that's not what being in christ is all about.

However, this is about music so i'll end my rant on that and talk about tuning and how that relates with music being "good" "bad" or "neutral"




A=440 was adopted by the world after a worldwide lobbying campaign by the Rockefeller institute and the US Navy, the lobbying effort lasted 40 years until they finally won. It has come out, from archival material on the Rockefellers and from FOIA material on the Navy that the reason 440hz was pushed was because it caused: "mass hysteria, aggression, and anger" in those who listen to music played in that scale. The idea was that since it categorically induces aggression, along with a weakening of the mind by opening it to hypnotic suggestibility the US government could make "a better soldier" through the mass conditioning and aggression inducing music, this was the navy's reasoning, the rockefellers reasoning was quite a bit more evil, but i'll save that for another time perhaps.

There are several reasons why humans go nuts when they hear it.

First, the human voice, and all resonant structures in the universe(which is everything) resonant to the solfeggio scale. A=432hz is part of that Fibonacci sequence and it is resonant with all matter and energy in the universe. Perfect pitch is A432hz.

You can test the universal resonance with a cheap guitar. in A440 tuning and a light brush of the strings(at least for me and my cheap guitar! ;) ) my guitar will stop resonating after less than 10 seconds. Tuned to A432 and the same guitar and same light brush results for me in +30seconds of resonance and sound production in the guitar itself(theoretically, if you achieved "perfect" tuning, the guitar would not stop resonating once plucked but there is also a "resistance to movement" issue in the guitar body itself).

Second, the human ear uses a Fibonacci spiral to house it's pressure wave sensitive nerve endings. This structure is designed to resonate to a Fibonacci sequence of vibrations. "perfect pitch" to a human being, and indeed in all the universe is based on the solfeggio scale of which A=432 and C=128 are a part. IF instruments are tuned to A=440 or higher, The result is physiological imbalances on a sub conscious level.

This is what Rudolf Steiner warned against for it's effects on human emotion and disposition which he called:"the luciferian brightness tones." If a human hears music that is "off key" but not enough to categorically reject, over stimulation, aggression, and anger result. A 440 is the legal, official tuning of all music in the world, and it is what all music is recorded too in the studio(though there is a strong push by musicians to resist that).

As an aside, one of the secrets of a Stradivarius violin was that it was designed to be especially resonant tuned to the solfeggio scale. A strat tuned to A 440 is about as good as a cheap learners violin. In fact, the rise in dissonant, disjointed, modernist classical music and jazz coincides exactly with the adaption of the A 440 standard. The reason is clear when you understand how music works: tuning to a natural non harmonic will result in the entire musical structure becoming dissonant with itself within 2 or 3 octaves or less, when tuned to a solfeggio harmonic the musical structure will be out 1 cent over 15 octaves(and that 1 cent is incorporated into another note, which seems to a say that our mathematical notation of harmonics is slightly off.).

I always used to wonder why the baby boomers went hysterical at rock concerts in the 50s and 60s and the above is the reason why. The human brain can be conditioned and deadened to an inhumane stimulus, which is what has happened to us in the western world. It's only when you hear A432 or other solfeggio tunings that you understand one is good and one is evil. I know many people are not sensitive to this stuff but if you have been give a good ear and have played music, no doubt you have wondered "why is the music i play so dead?!" I played in dozens of trombone choirs over the years, and tons of jazz bands and orchestras and It was infuriating to me and many of my fellow musicians as to how hard we tried to play in an open, resonant way only to find dead lifeless notes coming out of our instruments.

A440 arrangements and tunings are the reason why. You too can notice the difference if you are sensitive. I will also say this, It wasn't until the adaption of A440 that opera singers started loosing their voices and permanently wrecking their voice boxes. In fact this is such a problem in the opera world that the italian opera singers union has been lobbying, unsuccessfully for decades to get the Italian government to adopt A432 as standard tuning. 8hz is the difference between a perfect voice and a wrecked one.
There are tons of research on the human response to tuning out there but I'll end this little thought with some notes from an israeli intelligence study done on the beatles in the 1960s and I quote:

"Hysteria and mass disorder. . . There is no musical or artistic experience here, but a sensual display that arouses feelings of aggression replete with sexual stimuli."

Now, I like the Beatles a lot and they didn't even tune to A440 but A415 and A425 which is also slightly off from the solfeggio scale, but having now listened to a bunch of retuned pop songs and retuned beatles songs it's amazing the difference, and you know what, I experience different physiological sensations with the retuned 432 songs than I do at 440 or 445 or 413 or 415.

The point i'm trying to make is it's a lot more complex than is a song or band neutral, because, they can be. However, more likely than not they were playing the tune on a level which is destructive to the human body/brain/heart, and that especially includes christian music. The world may often be talking about satan and lucifer, but the christian world is selling a god that doesn't exist, is evil, and perhaps more destructive than what the world puts out.

I didn't really mean for this to be a rant, more an expose. Music is not neutral because it effects the human energy system, physiological, psychological, spiritual, and high dimensional thinking.

The solfeggio scale for instance, resonates with the human body, and the human energy field known as the chakras. It is just another energy system in the body but it works according to higher order principles in universal existence, mainly quantum and sub quantum forms of energy, vibration, and resonance. Music can be good for the body or bad for the body, Can help cement and glue a personality and a mind together or can easily fracture it. Music manipulates thought because thought is a vibration in the same way that music is and the same way that all things are vibrations. Music is a responsibility to your fellow man because you can build up or you can destroy, modern music mostly completely destroys the mind body heart connection.

A quick note 432hz is also the chakra vibration for you heart meridian(it is literally the vibration that your heart mind tissue vibrates at) and I personally can feel it(I am a "heart" thinking personality type which is why i'm so sensitive). 440hz resonates with a structure in the brain that guards a person from suggestibility, and is often regarded by neuroscience as a part of our brain tissue that is most in tune to "spiritual" things. It effectively knocks out that protective part of the brain and leaves us open to hypnosis and disconnection/disassociation with the rest of our thinking mind. So Is music good or bad... it depends.
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ms.r.c.
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by ms.r.c. »

Dward, I'm not sure what to think of all that. I actually studied music therapy and the effects of music on behavior and feelings. I see it as more cultural and context based rather than scientific and precise. I may try retuning my guitar anyway, just for kicks.

To the original question. Christian music is hard to take: poor quality, ridiculous message, overall sappiness. I rarely listen to it. I do still connect to old hymns, I still love a lot of them. I feel close to my mother when I sing them, that makes me happy.

I listen to a lot of other music, it connects me to the holy. I love a wide variety, I have often said that I like virtually any type of music that is well-performed. I love to plug in Pandora and walk in the canyons. It is a joyful experience. Music is powerful.
dward
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by dward »

lol, yeah, i have a tendency to just dump my thoughts on the keyboard. I am a trombonist(jazz, funk, ska, and classical), amateur trumpet player, aspiring guitarist, and former pianist(I now know why I grew to resent that thing... 440 sounds so flat...as in dead, lifeless, compared to 432 it's an amazing difference). I honestly believe, the more I study science, that sound has the most profound influence on our well being. We are after all vibrations in light ourselves, and we are tuned to 432hz. My whole point was that beyond just thinking about lyrics or style, which are important: they express ideas after all, was to look at sound itself. When you do that the evidence is damning, for a hundred years we've been perpetrating the greatest musical evil on people and we didn't even know it. Everything in the universe resonates on a solfeggio based harmonic, anything other than that is literally destructive to the wave forms in our body and in all matter 350hz which is a harmonic when tuned to A444hz is used in laboratories to study the aging of DNA because 350hz is THE FASTEST way to destroy DNA. 432hz was discovered independently by ancient indian scholars and doctors, by Pythagoras, and by western greek vitalist doctors(the kind that Luke was in the bible) and confirmed by our particle physics. We need to heed that knowledge.

WildernessWillie asked for another perspective, this is mine. After playing from grade 4 today at age 26 I have found that sound is more important than a song, Lyrics are very important because of the way they are are linked to the sound being listened too, since the sound so profoundly affects our thoughts.

That said I don't think culture has any real meaning in music, IE the listen-ability, or the ability to absorb it's meaning, even if in a different language or using a different rhythm like 3 5 7 for Islamic stuff as opposed to 2 4 6 based like western music. Unlike anything else music allows us to enter into another culture without any prior understanding because of the way sound, intent, tempo, rhythm, etc etc etc are entrained in one another.

As far as the original question I think it depends on your faith. After all, even in pauls day in regards to food it was said one man's faith allows him to only eat vegetables, another man can eat anything but no one should pass judgement on either. Music is just as personal.
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by Joshquinn »

WildernessWillie wrote:When I first entered the church world some twenty years ago music was categorized into two basic camps: sacred and secular. For many years that was my thinking. In recent months I have read on more than one occasion comments from authors who were writing concerning things of faith that there is no such thing as music being either sacred or secular, but it is considered neutral. While I must admit most of the music I listened to prior to Jesus was very un-Christian at best, some of it could maybe be considered neutral. Recently I’ve been re-thinking a lot of what I was taught in the IC, and while I’m not ready to/or going to listen to Iron Maiden sing Mark of the Beast I was pondering how much of the music out there could be considered neutral and not harmful to a follower of Christ. So I pose the question to you my brothers and sisters. Is music neutral? Or should music be divided into sacred and secular camps? Or is there another thought concerning music?
I was thinking about writing a topic that covers what you mention but it be focus on something bigger. That topic would be on secularism and what it actually means. The problem I realize is that Christians for the most part have only cut the surface of what it means for someone or something to be secular. Secular by definition is something/doing something that isn't religious, spiritual, or sacred and it's because of this definition that Christian assume that anyone/anything that is secular is bad, and their are non religious people/activities/things on this planet that are bad. However secular by definition can also imply to non religious people/activities/things that are not bad.

Gardening for example is a non religious activity (with the exception of maybe zen gardening but even then that can become a non religious activity if one is not making it for religious purposes) and there's nothing wrong with planting. Gardening is fun activity that involves creating a space that you can enjoy as well as do things like either relax or play (depending on the kind of garden you choose). It also could involve growing your own food so you can save money on shopping in a supermarket as well as eat healthier tastier food (homegrown food taste better then food bought in supermarket/grocery stores). Plus it's benefits the planet by providing a ecosystem for non human animals, reduce the carbon stuff use to transport food from long distances (because the more people grow their own food the less we have to import food by using machines that are power by fossil fuel), and depending on the garden style you have and the certain plants you have can reduce the carbon stuff in the air, etc. Not to mention can be a good work out. Speaking of work out sports too are a non religious activity and yet again there is nothing wrong with playing, as well as watching, sports. It's fun activity that brings people together and it's good exercise. There are a lot of secular activities, as well as people and things, in this would that can be mention that are good but that would take up this post. The point is that secular is a much broader term then people take it for, much like the case with the word "nature" for example which doesn't always have to be about plants, animals, and landscapes.

This then leads to question about music and whether it should be divided into sacred and secular or not. I say no. I think it's ridiculous actually that there are people who would be categorizing music like that when you think about it. While there are non religious music out there is bad from a moral point of view at the same there are also non religious music out there that are good from a moral point of view or our just honest in a positive way something like that (as in there are music that are not offensive and/or degrading).

Here are three examples of such music:

[/youtube]

[/youtube]

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Now are these songs secular? Yes! But are they bad in a offensive immorally way as well as would cause psychologically and spiritually harm to a Christian? No! Even though none of the songs mentions God, Yeshua (Jesus), or any biblical related person or event each song was uplifting in it's own way and it wasn't anything immorally negative. They aren't like the song you mention that was sung by this Iron Maiden, which I did took the time to listen to a bit to understand the example you were using (I never heard of this group up until now) and..yeah I can see why you are not ready to listen to them. The song is not my glass of wine either, but then it could make for a good background song for a action horror movie/game/show. It could be use during a fight scene or some event that takes place before the fight begins. By the way from the title of the video on Youtube the song was listening as being called the "Number of the Beast" unless I could be listening to the wrong song, but it's by the same group and I have an idea of what they focus on so yeah. As for labeling songs as neutral again that would be unnecessary. Music is music and it's already divided into musical genres just as literature is categorize in the literary genres.

This is just the basic of what I have to say about this issue on secularism for if I would to go in depth it would lead me to posting a very long message. Plus I am not in a position to be typing a essay at the moment (other things I have to do). So this would do for now.
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Joshquinn
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by Joshquinn »

dward wrote:
I think all music today at least from a psychological and physiological perspective is NOT good(yes that includes classical). I know what a lot of the "sold out" bands are alluding too in their lyrics and I hate it, though that doesn't stop me from listening.
Care to explain, because I don't see that with the music listen to often? And I do pay attention to the lyrics.
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by radio roswell »

I love music. Nothing calms my soul better. I really don't care for the vanilla worship and CCM Christian stuff. I'm currently digging some newer stuff by Arcade Fire of late but love the 60's and 70' most. I don't make a distinction to good arrangements whether it be spiritual or secular.

I write and do music videos too.

[/youtube]
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Joshquinn
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by Joshquinn »

Wow, that was a good one Radio. ^ ^ The effects were good and the fact it was black and white fit with the song you were singing. It felt like watching a lazy summer. Your music sounds to be inspire by 60s rock music as it sounds like it was made during the 60s.
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by radio roswell »

Joshquinn wrote:Wow, that was a good one Radio. ^ ^ The effects were good and the fact it was black and white fit with the song you were singing. It felt like watching a lazy summer. Your music sounds to be inspire by 60s rock music as it sounds like it was made during the 60s.
Thanks Josh...yes..I'm fascinated with the 60's and the sound. it's a big influence. 8-)
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Joshquinn
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by Joshquinn »

I notice you have the name of the album called "White Light" listed on the video. Is it on sale?
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radio roswell
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by radio roswell »

probably not until the end of the year I hope. But you can download many songs from my last Cd here along with this one.

http://www.reverbnation.com/radioroswell
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radio roswell
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by radio roswell »

I tried tuning My acoustic down to 432hz and it does hold the tone longer on the strings it seems. I also notice that when tuning to this that all the notes are whole numbers . There are countless debates on this on- line and some conspictorial stuff too but I'm more interested in the sound. There are also videos on youtube put of songs people have transposed into this frequency model. You can also use audacity ( free software ) download on line to convert songs too.

Very interesting.
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dward
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by dward »

radio, i use solfeggio in the 5th dimensional teleportation craft im designing(hope to eventually build it!) as well as the flying bicycle im building, all things in the universe as far as ive been shown are harmonics of that scale, music wise my ear goes THANKYOU! and so does every cell in my body...i love its richness. this discovery has reignighted my love of playing music because that frustrating untrancendance and lifelessness of 440 is gone.
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by dward »

ill,,check out that software too. it makes me want to invent a new instrument that is shaped according to the geometry of solfeggio, some interesting things would happen, and i bet i would end up with something like the dynasphere http://www.svpvril.com/dynasum1.html :D
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Re: Music Is It Neutral

Post by radio roswell »

Oh dear Lord..Why can't church music be like this ?? If there ever was a vibe that creates musical worship in me..it's this !

[/youtube]
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